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Old 12th Nov 2023, 11:09 am   #1
stevehertz
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Default Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

Split from this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=205431


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickie View Post
I'm looking for two small knobs as per the pictures, and one of the central larger ones. I don't have access to one to measure, but its about 45mm diameter as best as I can guess. Here's hoping!
As you have probably realised, that style of knob was used on many of the much desired, classic Ekco sets and as such they're hard to come across. Ben Dijkman does/did list them but the last time I enquired he advised that he requires a buyer to purchase a 'large quantity ' to justify him making a new batch. Whilst I see the background reason for that, I don't agree that the onus should be on a single hobbyist to fund the making of a batch when they want one or two knobs. These are sought after knobs and it would be unlikely that any would be left over from a manufactured batch - just hold them in stock. Not just that but they are expensive, around £25 a go as I recall. To be clear, Ben makes superb reproduction products I just don't agree with his policy of making someone stump up for a load of knobs when they want just one or two.
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 11:15 am   #2
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

Steve
I could not disagree with you more!
Ben is providing a service he is not running this as a commercial business.
If he makes your EKCO knobs and is left with 8 in stock that's his money tied up until they sell. Money he can't spend on someone else's need.
If your so confident they will sell you buy the batch and sell the surplus yourself. Easy Peasey.

Cheers

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Old 12th Nov 2023, 11:32 am   #3
stevehertz
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

And I couldn't disagree with you more for the reasons that I've stated!
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 11:34 am   #4
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

I have to agree with Mike in this instance. It would be a brave man who invested in Ekco knobs! I have no idea what the upfront costs of a batch would be.

It's the sort of thing the BVWS could do. I've often thought they could expand their spares offering to include things like 1M log pots+ DP switches. As a service to members, not to make a profit.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 1:05 pm   #5
Ben_Dijkman
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

@Steve .
I like to explain some facts that we have to deal with , that you obviously have not pictured.
People telling that ,these Ekco knobs are very needed/wanted.
To serv them ,in the past we have made a smal badge Ekco knobs, that's correct.
But.....
It took us 6 years ! before the last knob was finally sold.

Our conclusion: Ekco collectors do not want new knobs... they want original knobs.
As long as they know there are new knobs they can buy (in case of need) , they even longer keep surching for original knobs..

I never asked from 1 costumer to buy a whole badge...
I ask them to contact other Ekco collectors, who allso need just 1 or a few knobs .and make an order for a badge for you all..........
But somehow...that seems to be an impossible request...

Please explain to me : Why do people expect that we take all the risc's... for collectors who only take care for their own need... not willin to work togehter.

A forum like this, is specially made for it, so we can surch inform and work together.

A complete shiny Ekco is very expensive...so the price for a few new knobs is just peanuts..to the expanding value it gives to an incomplete Ekco.
We do not make cheap (=low quallity) knobs....
Why should we do all the affort for collectors, and take all the financial risc's .....to let others make big money ?

If there really is a serious need for Ekco knobs, we can make a new badge again.

B.R Ben

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Old 15th Nov 2023, 2:12 pm   #6
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben_Dijkman View Post
@Steve .
I like to explain some facts that we have to deal with , that you obviously have not pictured.
People telling that ,these Ekco knobs are very needed/wanted.
To serv them ,in the past we have made a smal badge Ekco knobs, that's correct.
But.....
It took us 6 years ! before the last knob was finally sold.

Our conclusion: Ekco collectors do not want new knobs... they want original knobs.
As long as they know there are new knobs they can buy (in case of need) , they even longer keep surching for original knobs..

I never asked from 1 costumer to buy a whole badge...
I ask them to contact other Ekco collectors, who allso need just 1 or a few knobs .and make an order for a badge for you all..........
But somehow...that seems to be an impossible request...

Please explain to me : Why do people expect that we take all the risc's... for collectors who only take care for their own need... not willin to work togehter.

A forum like this, is specially made for it, so we can surch inform and work together.

A complete shiny Ekco is very expensive...so the price for a few new knobs is just peanuts..to the expanding value it gives to an incomplete Ekco.
We do not make cheap (=low quallity) knobs....
Why should we do all the affort for collectors, and take all the financial risc's .....to let others make big money ?

If there really is a serious need for Ekco knobs, we can make a new badge again.

B.R Ben
Ben, I've heard all those points many times before. I just disagree that a buyer should have to buy - or try to gather enough other people - to buy a batch of knobs. I tried and I didn't - at THAT time - get enough people wanting to buy them, just a couple of other knobs wanted. If you were prepared to keep the knobs in stock, for sure they would sell, but over a period of time. I don't really see that as a problem as you do being as the financial outlay to yourself is not the same as it is to the buyer, much less I would imagine. I also disagree with your conclusion that collectors only want original knobs, that's far too sweeping a statement and certainly not the case with me; good quality repro knobs (which is what you make) are fine by me and many others, fact.

You have explained your business model, and as I have said previously I don't want to have to place an order for, what? ten knobs working out at £200 or more? If I need a knob and you have it in stock - or any other item for that matter - I am happy to do business, it's high quality stuff you have there.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 3:11 pm   #7
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

I can well understand why - whether it's knobs, backs, dials or grill cloth - unless there is considerable demand, Ben (or any other supplier), doesn't want to carry the business risk of getting a batch produced and put into stock which he could end up with on his hands (as has happened), for yonks. Would we do that in his position? I don't think so. Anyone who has used Ben's services, as I have, will know that everything he supplies is top notch.

Three years ago or so, a forum members who runs a small business producing plaque and house signs using a CNC router offered superb MDF replica back panels for a range of radios. (A messy, noisy, unpleasant, time-consuming task on a DIY basis). He asked for comments on what panels to produce and received an enthusiastic response. Inevitably the DAC90, DAC90A and WCR featured in the list, among others. He produced several batches of various models and offered them at £10 each - too low a price in my view at the time, but hardly any sold. He was just trying to be helpful, but really, it was time, effort and money wasted.

Someone elsewhere who has produced replica knobs in white plastic resin with brass inserts for Roberts Radios such as the R200 & R300. (They were also fitted to WEM/ Watkins and other Vintage guitar amps, some record players, guitars etc). They're an improved design over the originals, which had a design flaw which caused the knobs to crack when the grub screw was tightened.

Twelve sets produced - five sold to date, so a bit of a 'slow burner'.

But of course what happens is the someone buys say an R200 at a car boot sale for a fiver, which has seen better days. They need a pair of knobs, but balk at paying maybe £14 for a pair- almost three time what they paid for the radio. (Oh, and they want a strap too, and the radio is dead).

The stark reality is that vintage radios are not an investment - they're money pits.

That's the price we pay for our enjoyment and rarely can it be done on a shoestring.

Every good wish in getting ten people to commit to €55 Euro per set of three Ekco knobs. At least the value of Round Ekcos allows plenty of headroom to absorb the cost, and the lack of knobs considerably devalues the radio. The problem is finding ten people who need a set of knobs right now.

We should count ourselves lucky that if the demand is there, Ben will get them made.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 9:03 pm   #8
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

Amen !
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 11:47 pm   #9
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Default Re: Manufacturing and supply of repro Ecko AD75 knobs.

Ben has perfect freedom to choose his own business model. It would be very, very wrong to try to impose one different to his choice on him.

Similarly, anyone else is perfectly free to set up to manufacture any parts they want with the business model of their choice. Statements about how big the market opportunity is seem unsupported if the opportunity is not followed up on.

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