UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > Components and Circuits

Notices

Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14th Nov 2023, 12:55 pm   #1
derek.ireland
Triode
 
derek.ireland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 48
Default Soldering Litz wire? - Actually Tinsel wire

Any tips please as to the best way to solder headphone's litz wire to 1/4 jack plug.

Thanks.
derek.ireland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2023, 6:51 pm   #2
stableblock
Diode
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

Remove any outer insulation. Carefully untwist the end. Dip end in meths or other suitable solvent. You need one that burns cleanly. Set fire to end. When the meths has burnt off carefully clean the carbon of the strands using a cloth dampened with meths. Twist the cleaned strands together and solder as normal.

It's years since I've seen Litz wire, good luck.
stableblock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2023, 6:57 pm   #3
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,883
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

I've not come across Litz being used for [vintage] headphone-leads; usually it is 'tinsel', a fabric core with copper foil being spirally wound round it; several strands of this are then bundled together to form a single wire.

The usual way to terminate it [as used by the leads provided with WWII headsets and telephone-handsets for the GPO] is with some sort of crimp terminal.
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2023, 7:09 pm   #4
CambridgeWorks
Nonode
 
CambridgeWorks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2,835
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

Yes, tinsel wire is what I have seen in the past.
For that, I used to get some very fine tinned copper wire and wrap it around the strands after bunching them together. Forming something like a tight coil spring over them. Then solder this "spring" to the connector. Capillary action takes a part in this process. Easier said than done and very fiddly.
This was decades ago when attaching to a 1/4" jack plug.
Rob
__________________
Apprehension creeping like a tube train up your spine - Cymbaline. Film More soundtrack - Pink Floyd
CambridgeWorks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2023, 7:17 pm   #5
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,883
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

Yes, the wire-wrapping-over-bunched-tinsel is a good technique; in times-past I have used 5 amp tinned-copper fusewire intended for the old style rewireable lighting-fuses to good effect here.

You don't need to solder it, indeed I would say that doing so makes fitment to a screw-terminal likely to be problematic, when in future the solder suffers cold-flow effects and the clamping force of the screw gets reduced.
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Nov 2023, 12:24 am   #6
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,665
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

The crimp approach is good. The wire relies on the 'high tensile plastic' fibres for strength and soldering melts them.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Nov 2023, 3:53 pm   #7
ScottBouch
Octode
 
ScottBouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leicestershire, UK.
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

Here is an article I recently wrote that includes a tinsel wire repair by wire wrap/lashing:

https://scottbouch.com/aircrew-uk-he...oration-01.htm

These tinsel wires were originally terminated with little crimps, which were soldered to the terminals. This fault in the tinsel wire was right at the point where it disappeared into the crimp, as if it had been strained at that point. I repaired it by lashing the tinsel and soldering directly as I had no suitable crimps or crimp tools of that nature.

I believe the central thread in these DEF-STAN type cables to be Kevlar, so there is no issue with heat from soldering. But some older cables may have used cotton in the centre, so be quick with the heat if you think it's cotton.

It's a fiddly, difficult job.. the overall finished wrapped diameter was approximately 1 mm to 1.5 mm in this case.

I am in my early 40s, and already my eyesight struggles with this task, a bit like threading a needle. I am thinking about buying a magnifier, as jobs like this will be a lot easier!

Without lashing or crimping, there is no decent way of soldering tinsel wire... I've tried several times over the years! It's used in WW2 and Cold War era aircraft flying helmets and aircraft intercom leads. Thankfully not so much in modern kit!

But Tinsel is highly flexible, and quite robust given repeated movements, and in lots of cases I've seen from the 50's / 60's, it out-survives the perishing rubber insulation!

Cheers, Scott
__________________
www.scottbouch.com
ScottBouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Nov 2023, 11:44 pm   #8
Oldcodger
Nonode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 2,181
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

I was always told that "Litz" wire was several strands of enamel covered wire, and that each strand had to be cleaned to be soldered. Then another story, that each strand could be soldered by dipping the ends in flux and tinning it. Take yer pick.
Oldcodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Nov 2023, 12:19 am   #9
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,250
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire?

As a trainee we used Litz wire and just dipped the end into a solder pot before soldering in the usual way. It was used for inductors in the low ghz range.
But I would say your headphone cable is either tinsel wire as already mentioned, or possibly steel, as used in my sennheiser professional headphones.
If it's tinsel and you've decided your only option is soldering, then my method is to dip it in thick flux, twist it together and very quickly tin it with a hot iron.

The very cheap stuff can simply disappear under the heat and I do remember once whipping the end with some fine copper wire stripped from a bit of cheap flex, then tinning that instead.

Steel just needs a bit of flux and the insulation freshly stripped to reveal a nice clean portion.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Nov 2023, 12:29 pm   #10
m0cemdave
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,184
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire? - Actually Tinsel wire

The instructions for soldering the tinsel wires used in Beyer DT100-109 headset cables state that after tinning the connector terminals, the wires should be soldered to them at a temperature between 190 and 200C, and not to exceed 200C. That's 400F, i.e. a number 4 Weller bit. To do this properly requires Low Melting Point solder.
m0cemdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Nov 2023, 3:21 pm   #11
PJC58-Hythe
Heptode
 
PJC58-Hythe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hythe, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 617
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire? - Actually Tinsel wire

For anyone interested here is some pictorial info on Litz & Tinsel wire.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Litz & Tinsel Wire.pdf (251.1 KB, 28 views)
__________________
Peter - M0HYT - BVWS Member - GQRP Club

http://www.retroworkshop.co.uk
PJC58-Hythe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Nov 2023, 3:33 pm   #12
ScottBouch
Octode
 
ScottBouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leicestershire, UK.
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Soldering Litz wire? - Actually Tinsel wire

Oh, that's brilliant, thank you!!

Would you mind sharing the sources of the tinsel images in the PDF?

Cheers, Scott.
__________________
www.scottbouch.com
ScottBouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:34 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.