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Old 14th Apr 2011, 4:27 pm   #21
brenellic2000
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

A bog standard thermostatic ring is all you need! Pearl glue keeps for donkeys' years if stored dry but don't over-fill the glue pot and believe you'll be able to keep on reheating as it has a limit number of recycles.

Veneer faced ply always was thin - hence the way 'light' sanding of edges so easily cuts through. Gone are the days of thick veneered block or plywood for carving ... but it is around at a hell of a price!

Sounds like you'll soon be getting the bug - furniture restoration is a profitable pasttime and (can be!) rewarding.

Enjoy - you won't regret it.

Barry
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Old 15th Apr 2011, 9:37 pm   #22
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

To date I have the veneer, I can get the glue pearls and the brush. Am watching 2 single hot plates.
So far I am totally unable to find a glue pot, searched the web for hours, except the electric ones, to expensive. There are 2 traditional on Ebay at the moment the better one I will try to get, maybe. The other (2 actually) look rather rusty.

I am now looking at alternatives I can use probably a domestic pan and a stainless storage tin with lid.

Regards
Dave
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 9:06 am   #23
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi,

Thanks for the pictures Dave. The light coloured edges are sure signs of sanding through which is so easily done and are a pain to touch in with colour.

Wherever possible veneer should be laid at right angles to the grain of the one it is being attached to otherwise the grain is liable to open up at a later date; if I want to lay the veneer with the grain as in the original I remove the old veneer by scraping taking a lot of care not to round edges over.

For quite a while I used a clean small baked beans tin wired into an old saucepan to prevent it bobbing around in the water to heat hide glue; I later bought a traditional cast iron double glue pot from eBay costing around £20. If the glue pot looks rusty it should not be a problem as long as the inner pot which holds the glue is clean.

Tools used in hammer veneering are few and quite cheap; my glue pot cost £20; new electric iron around £6; veneering hammer was home made; craft knives £1 from Poundland and it pays to shop around for veneer. Hide glue cost around £22 for 2Kg.

If you follow the instructions on the video Dave you should be fine; unfortunately for me I had to learn the hard way and it tested my patience to the limit. It is natural at first to panic and try to do everything at once trying to beat the glue before it starts to gel but hide glue is wonderful once you become familiar with it; going over with the electric iron quickly softens the glue and and as long as the veneer is not allowed to dry out all should be well.

Once you have successfully laid your first piece of veneer you will enjoy the process and no longer be worried about veneering in fact this kind of work is very addictive and having got the tools any future veneering will only cost glue and veneer.

At first I was full of panic and highly stressed but now with a little practice and knowing the glue can be re-softened I tend to be very casual; once everything is set up the actual laying of a piece of veneer is done quickly.

Take your time Dave and enjoy the learning curve because it is so worth while.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 10:39 am   #24
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgem1406 View Post
I am now looking at alternatives I can use probably a domestic pan and a stainless storage tin with lid.
Hi Dave
There is a kitchen device called a "Bain Marie" which is just like a glue pot. It consists of an outer saucepan for the water and an inner pan to take the scrambled eggs - I mean glue. You may be able to find one of those more cheaply.
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 11:50 am   #25
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi,

Many thanks for the "Bain Marie" tip Brian; I've just done a quick web search and found a Beka 16cm Bain Marie on sale at £38.90 which is a lot cheaper than buying a proper electric hide glue pot.

For members not familiar with hide glue pots here are a couple of pictures of my traditional cast iron pot. Please note the outer has a rusted inside and this is normal but the smaller inner pot has a clean inside which holds the glue; these pots do get messed up because hide glue tends to get splashed around during use.

Just for interest I've also added my white plastic fridge de-frosting scraper. I used this scraper for laying veneer before making my proper veneering hammer and it worked very well indeed. It is even possible to use the end of a piece of 3"x1" length of hardwood that is cleanly cut for laying veneer.

I bought a single electric variable heat hob off eBay Dave and it only cost £17 but if you bought a Bain Marie as suggested by Brian the hob would not be needed.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 12:21 pm   #26
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi dave,i have used ratchet straps to hold rounded contours in place, you have to go around the radio to secure good luck with the cabinet
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 1:34 pm   #27
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

A whopping great bain marie for glue pots is way OTT!

A proper cast iron/alloy glue pot with an inner basin is all you need - honest! It has depth and keeps the glue liquid for a long time. A bain marie has too little depth and the glue will rapidly dry out from evaporation!

If you're going to do the job, for pity's sake do it properly, in one go - it works out a lot cheaper in the long run!

Barry
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 2:38 pm   #28
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Proper scotch glue is quite easy to find but goes by many names, try searching e-Bay for scotch or pearl glue.
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Old 16th Apr 2011, 5:26 pm   #29
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Proper 'Scotch' glue?!

'Scotch' glue, Hide Glue, 'Pearl' Glue, Rabbit skin glue are all rendered animal bone and/or skin (hide). 'Scotch' glue is/was generally a lower grade bone-derived glue but sometimes mixed with hide; while Hide glue is just that, hide, and is a superior, more tenacious glue. Rabbit skin glue is rarely used in furniture making.

'Pearl' merely means it is in pellets, not in a solid block form, and is far quicker for small jobs and to soak up water before use, than broken block... even then you still need to soak it overnight before brewing up!

If you don't specify 'Hide Glue' you will get the bog standard animal-bone derived 'Scotch glue'.

... and if you want to make these water-resistant, mix in some powdered chalk!


Barry
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Old 22nd Apr 2011, 3:53 pm   #30
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi all, well unfortunately I have to start my search for a pot all over again, I got struck down by a very unexpected dose of Sun Stroke. Just now coming back near normal after 7 days. How one manages to get sun stroke like that in a one hour walk round the local shops beats me. Anyhow there we have it.

So afraid no progress has been made with anything.

Like I said before my biggest problem is the pot, but I found a couple more so just have to hope to get one. The other items are no problem they are in common supply.

Thanks all for your input
Have a great Easter Weekend
Regards Dave..
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Old 24th Apr 2011, 4:56 pm   #31
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Just a quick update.
I'm back in order now after my sun stroke.

I have a glue pot and the glue on their way now or at least will be in the week.
The pot looks pretty new and big enough for my needs, £17.00 inc delivery, not bad.

I decided to strip the old veneer from the cabinet completely. So far I have removed all the top and front. As for the sides I have not managed to get it to even look like wanting to be removed, heat and steam makes no impression.
Maybe I will just have to leave the sides as is.

Just have to wait for things to arrive in the post now.

Hope Easter is going well.

Dave
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Old 25th Apr 2011, 3:50 pm   #32
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi,

Thanks for the pictures Dave and sorry for the delay.

http://www.jpennyltd.co.uk/About_Us.php

The link above is to the site I bought my hide glue from and the service was excellent as is the glue.

For my Ekco TV inlaid panels I laid over sized veneer then used a card template to cut around but unfortunately I placed the template out of position by measuring from a wrong edge this offset the panel and was unacceptable as it would have thrown the width of the cross banding out.

I actually found it to be quite easy to wet the veneer and go over with the hot iron then re-glue and lay the veneer in the correct position without damaging the veneer. I believe I was able to do this as the glue was new and would agree with Danny that once hide glue has set rock hard with age it would be highly difficult to remove complete pieces of veneer.

The two side panels on your cabinet look simple enough to veneer but the front panel looks rather more difficult due to the top curved section; is there a joint along the top edge or does the veneer run through from the bottom of the front panel right to the back of the top panel in a single length with the large dial opening cut out to the front?

If I was veneering this cabinet I would first lay the side veneers then the end grain would be covered once the top and front veneers were laid.

The curved section is without doubt the hardest to veneer but it would prove a great deal easier if you could lay the veneer with the grain parallel to the length of the curve as I did with mine.

I'm sorry to hear of your sun stroke and it just proves we are not used to the sun in the UK.

Good luck. Kind regards, Col.
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Old 25th Apr 2011, 8:42 pm   #33
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi Col
The veneer I have is 23cm wide x 300cm in length. The grain running in the direction of the length. This would require 3 pieces to complete from the back top edge to bottom on the front.
Dependent on how accurate the 23cm is the first piece would run from top rear edge to the top of the front aperture. If not very accurate then the top would have to have a join in it to allow enough to be available to cover the top edge of the aperture.
Either way it may be a bit difficult to make the rounded top edge lay correctly.
I will have some ratchet straps available to help with clamping the rounded edge.

I will be doing the sides first. With the top / front the grain will run from left to right and should roll easily over the rounded surface.

Best wishes
Dave.
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Old 10th May 2011, 10:01 pm   #34
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

A quick update.
Well so far I have managed to do the 2 sides but its been a struggle.
I watched the video again before I started just to refresh my mind. The first problem was when I whetted the veneer and run the flat iron over it.
The veneer just distorted and went into a mess, it was like a wavy sea. It must have expanded in places and shrunk in others as splits along the grain just appeared. These could not be closed up again. The wavy sea seemed to subside to a point after a while.
Anyway I did the first side and it went fairly well. It was clamped up and left overnight. The result was quite good.
I then did the other side, this didn't go so easy but I got it there. Again clamped up overnight. Well the end result was disaster as there were 2 or three splits and 2 sharp ridges where the veneer had expanded and could not go flat.
No option but to remove it, scrap it and start again. Fortunately I had enough veneer to do that although it meant joining 2 pieces.
This time it went reasonably well with just one small ridge about 3" long and a couple of bubbles near the edges. The bubbles were cured with a hot flat iron, easy one. The ridge I could do nothing with so ended up cutting it out and letting in another piece of veneer. I think I got away with that one OK. It may show a little once the veneer is sanded down and varnished I'm hoping it wont.

I just have the top and front to do now. One thing I will not be doing any more is wetting the veneer and using a flat iron on it as was done in the video. It goes on dry.

I will post again when I have managed, or otherwise, the top and front and put some pics up of it.

Regards Dave
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Old 10th May 2011, 11:58 pm   #35
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

I'm a bit late to this post but in terms of glue pots this is what I've used for the last 12 years:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...al/gluepot.jpg

It's very good at maintaining the temperature. It's a little small for larger veneer work but perfectly adequate for stuff less than 2 sq.ft.
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Old 11th May 2011, 9:58 am   #36
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Sounds like you got the veneer too wet, too quicly - that's the trouble with modern paper-thin veneers, especially if stored in a centrally heated house!

All, you need do is dampen the veener with a rung out sponge over a period of time to allow it to recover its proper moisture content, 14% or so, (you can leave it in well aired garden shed for week or so) to get it pliable and less likely to split.

Barry

Barry
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Old 12th May 2011, 1:54 pm   #37
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi Barry,
Thanks for that but I just copied the video and wet the veneer the same.
I don't have central heating or a garden shed. I'm now very dubious about wetting it at all after the result I obtained. I will try it again the way you say using a spare bit and see what happens.
Not got round to doing the rest of it yet, lost my bottle, hahahahha.
Catch you latter

Regards Dave.
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Old 12th May 2011, 1:59 pm   #38
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi Michael,
Yes I was going to get one of those but I managed to pick up a proper glue pot at a reasonable price from Ebay. Also a hot plate for it to sit on.
It,s just a small pot 1/8 pint but big enough for my use.

Regards Dave.
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Old 12th Jun 2011, 1:09 pm   #39
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hello All,
Well here we are back at last, I have eventually got round to completing the cabinet veneer.
All in all it went easier than I expected although I ended up with more joins than expected, some due to the problems I had with the veneer cracking when it was whetted last time. But I got it there.
I did the top and the rounded edge by hand without any clamps, nothing available at the time, I just smoothed it on by hand until the glue was holding it in place.
As yet I have not fully cleaned it down, just brought the edges into line and level. Some of the joints show slightly but hopefully cleaning it all down will improve that problem and when varnished / lacquered they will not show.

Here's a couple of pictures.

Next stop the completion!

Cheers Dave
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Old 12th Jun 2011, 4:07 pm   #40
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Default Re: Bush AC34 cabinet veneer

Hi Dave when you have the veneer sorted then comes the finish ,
i can recommend this product especially for indoor use it has a quite pleasant smell the product is called patena ! you will need to apply about 4/5 applications it's just like applying polish i leave one day per coat ,when done it will look to shiny , use some good wax polish on a piece of wire wool the 0000 type very fine , the finish looks very authentic , i have been very pleased with the results . Mick
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