What a mess.. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Paulus.d · 21st Aug 2018, 1:09 pm

Got my Tandberg series 15 out for a play and noticed some playback speed issue.... wind and rewind were struggling too , so I thought it was time to overhaul it ....
Removing the lid I found the belt had disintegrated and a curious corrosion had formed on the metalwork ....
What the hell is this? I've never seen this before...its hard to remove, solvent had no effect......
I suppose i'm gonna have to strip it down and completely clean every part ...even the tape end sensor is stuck....

camtechman · 21st Aug 2018, 1:33 pm

There is one solvent that will shift it (M.E.K. = Methyl Ethyl Ketone) or similar "Butanone" but only with corroded metal and nowhere near plastic.

I did once use a model railway product that was used for 'welding' plastics. I think it was called "Liquid Weld".

When using either, take precautions to avoid contact with skin and make sure of good ventilation.

NorfolkDaveUK · 21st Aug 2018, 1:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulus.d

Got my Tandberg series 15 out for a play and noticed some playback speed issue.... wind and rewind were struggling too , so I thought it was time to overhaul it ....
Removing the lid I found the belt had disintegrated and a curious corrosion had formed on the metalwork ....
What the hell is this? I've never seen this before...its hard to remove, solvent had no effect......
I suppose i'm gonna have to strip it down and completely clean every part ...even the tape end sensor is stuck....

I would go with the strip it and rebuild it option . I use this approach with every machine I get . Its by far the best way to get things back to its former glory . Make sure you pay attention to spacers , they arent always "critical" but many times they are (i`m talking about the really thin ones that just look like washers) , make sure you take a lot of pics and you`ll have a great working unit in no time at all . I usually get a rebuild done in a couple days , one day for stripping and cleaning another for more cleaning and rebuild , its always great to have them functioning as they should . It makes me cringe when I hear the Americans say "just give it a squirt of deoxit" ..lol. It`ll work for a while but nothing like taking it to task and rebuilding it completely . Let us see some pics of the progress . Enjoy it , its fun . I`m doing the one in the pic at the min (Tandberg 3300x just re-capping it and then I`ll pull the mech out ) If you use MEK be warned that stuff is nasty . I used to use when I was doing reballing / reflowing BGA chips . Its harsh as hell on your lungs so wear a mask .

emeritus · 21st Aug 2018, 1:56 pm

Just don't smoke while using Methyl Ethyl Ketone. I understand that the heat of a burning cigarette end can break down the fumes into something that is highly toxic, Phosgene I think. .

There is a plastic solvent called "MEK PAK" that that is sold as a solvent for plastic model kits. It does not contain Methyl Ethyl Ketone and is non-hazardous.

wd40addict · 21st Aug 2018, 2:53 pm

Philips goo is soluble in meths, still makes a real mess though!

NorfolkDaveUK · 21st Aug 2018, 3:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wd40addict

Philips goo is soluble in meths, still makes a real mess though!

Philips goo is something too behold huh . lol . I have one here waiting to be cleaned out . What a mess that is . Even the brakes have gone to goo ..haha . nightmare .

TonyDuell · 21st Aug 2018, 3:17 pm

Having repaired a number of tape recorders (and other things) where rubber parts have turned to 'Evil Goo' I will agree that the only thing to do is a complete strip-down (take apart everything that will come apart) and clean up.

Try various solvents. IPA (Propan-2-ol) is safe on most things and might help. Propanone (acetone) will attack many plastics (but of course is safe on metals) and shifts rather more. Just wiping it off with kitchen paper is a good start, actually. You will have to clean the grooves in the pulleys, I found wooden cocktail sticks useful to get most of it out. The worst thing I had to clean (not in a tape recorder) was a PCB edge connector where some of this goo had got in. I think I had to desolder the connector from the backplane and remove the contacts and clean them one at a time.

Be warned it will get on you hands (and then onto other things that you touch) and on your clothes (where is it almost impossible to shift it from).

emeritus · 21st Aug 2018, 4:30 pm

When I had to deal with some Philips goo a few years ago, having removed the affected part, I used some dry earth to work the goo up into a stiff paste that was no longer sticky to handle. Our local top soil is a brick earth that dries out to very fine dust.

Refugee · 21st Aug 2018, 5:14 pm

I have found Ambersill FE10 good for belt goo.
I had to do the reel clutches on one and the FE10 was kind to the plastic.

Paulus.d · 22nd Aug 2018, 1:27 pm

thanks for your advice guys .... I have the new belt and will start this soon ...yeah ill probably strip and clean ....it needs the speaker changed too as this thumps and bangs on bassy music ...the tandbergs are cruel when you switch them on ..I used to switch the speaker to ext until the power was on !!

Paulus.d · 23rd Aug 2018, 1:58 pm

the metal contamination is salt...somehow it got some on the metal while the lid was off!!

NorfolkDaveUK · 23rd Aug 2018, 2:39 pm

Did it come from a coastal region ?

Edit : Ohh you live in Margate, say no more. Its in the air assuming you`ve had it a while.

Paulus.d · 23rd Aug 2018, 4:21 pm

yes I do ...but looks like some has fallen onto it...lol
I have no idea how this could have happened..!!!!

FrankB · 31st Aug 2018, 10:20 pm

Yup. The old "Melting Belt/Tire Syndrome".
If I had a dollar for every one of those I cleaned up, I'd be in awesome financial shape for life.

Don't get that stuff on your pants. If you do, it's there for "life". Also a real pain to get off your hands, so rubber gloves are indicated.

I found that denatured alcohol worked quite well to remove it. I also used long cotton swabs and plenty of clean, white rags to take it off. (The "clean, white rags" were neither when I was done. Just throw them in the garbage.)

I found buying the swabs by the 100 pk or gross made the price a lot cheaper too. IIRC it was from .30- .40 each from the local chemists or $ 12:00- $18.00/ 1000 from them. No brainer there. Just shop around a bit.
(I am on my 2nd thousand now and about to buy another pk.)

I am thinking typewriter platen cleaner might also work, but am out of it from rebuilding the really old daisy wheel printers. I am the only one in my area that still has the factory class cert. for the "oldie moldies" anymore.

lesmw0sec · 1st Sep 2018, 9:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by camtechman

There is one solvent that will shift it (M.E.K. = Methyl Ethyl Ketone) or similar "Butanone" but only with corroded metal and nowhere near plastic.

I did once use a model railway product that was used for 'welding' plastics. I think it was called "Liquid Weld".

When using either, take precautions to avoid contact with skin and make sure of good ventilation.

Too true - I recall getting some forthright comments when I forgot to remove some left overnight in a beaker in the instrument shop. The chaps were less than amused - particuarly as it was mid winter and all the windows had to be opened up!

Boater Sam · 1st Sep 2018, 10:50 am

I don't know what the rubber is but there was a warning about sticky rubber on burnt cars containing hydrofluoric acid which is particularly nasty stuff, I lost all my finger nails with it long ago, could have lost my hands.

Refugee · 1st Sep 2018, 10:51 am

I once "saved" a little bit of solvent in a plastic cup and a few minutes later I turned round to find a wet sticky disk of plastic on the bench.

Refugee · 1st Sep 2018, 10:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boater Sam

I don't know what the rubber is but there was a warning about sticky rubber on burnt cars containing hydrofluoric acid which is particularly nasty stuff, I lost all my finger nails with it long ago, could have lost my hands.

The acid comes from flexible hydraulic pipes and used not to be a problem when it was only the brake pipes but now modern cars have the same material all over the engine bay.

emeritus · 2nd Sep 2018, 10:53 am

On a first aiders' refresher course in the mid- 1990's, one of the attendees worked at a vehicle dismantlers. He warned us not to attempt to salvage anything from (what were then) modern cars that had been damaged by fire. The problem was that certain type of synthetic sealant could be decomposed by heat into something highly toxic, possibly the Hydroflouric Acid mentioned above. To dismantle such cars, they had to wear a full body protection suit that was disposed of afterwards. He said that the stuff was so toxic that getting it on a digit or other body part, could necessitate its amputation. AFAIR as long as there had been no fire, there was no problem, but of course it is possible that decomposition could also happen over time, as with Philips goo.

AC/HL · 2nd Sep 2018, 2:43 pm

Can we get back on topic please, a tape recorder is highly unlikely to have brake pipes, even if it does have brakes!

21st Aug 2018, 1:09 pm	#1
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	What a mess.. Got my Tandberg series 15 out for a play and noticed some playback speed issue.... wind and rewind were struggling too , so I thought it was time to overhaul it .... Removing the lid I found the belt had disintegrated and a curious corrosion had formed on the metalwork .... What the hell is this? I've never seen this before...its hard to remove, solvent had no effect...... I suppose i'm gonna have to strip it down and completely clean every part ...even the tape end sensor is stuck....

21st Aug 2018, 1:33 pm	#2
camtechman Nonode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK. Posts: 2,552	Re: What a mess.. There is one solvent that will shift it (M.E.K. = Methyl Ethyl Ketone) or similar "Butanone" but only with corroded metal and nowhere near plastic. I did once use a model railway product that was used for 'welding' plastics. I think it was called "Liquid Weld". When using either, take precautions to avoid contact with skin and make sure of good ventilation. __________________ When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!

21st Aug 2018, 1:56 pm	#4
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,349	Re: What a mess.. Just don't smoke while using Methyl Ethyl Ketone. I understand that the heat of a burning cigarette end can break down the fumes into something that is highly toxic, Phosgene I think. . There is a plastic solvent called "MEK PAK" that that is sold as a solvent for plastic model kits. It does not contain Methyl Ethyl Ketone and is non-hazardous.

21st Aug 2018, 2:53 pm	#5
wd40addict Octode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,518	Re: What a mess.. Philips goo is soluble in meths, still makes a real mess though!

21st Aug 2018, 3:17 pm	#7
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,225	Re: What a mess.. Having repaired a number of tape recorders (and other things) where rubber parts have turned to 'Evil Goo' I will agree that the only thing to do is a complete strip-down (take apart everything that will come apart) and clean up. Try various solvents. IPA (Propan-2-ol) is safe on most things and might help. Propanone (acetone) will attack many plastics (but of course is safe on metals) and shifts rather more. Just wiping it off with kitchen paper is a good start, actually. You will have to clean the grooves in the pulleys, I found wooden cocktail sticks useful to get most of it out. The worst thing I had to clean (not in a tape recorder) was a PCB edge connector where some of this goo had got in. I think I had to desolder the connector from the backplane and remove the contacts and clean them one at a time. Be warned it will get on you hands (and then onto other things that you touch) and on your clothes (where is it almost impossible to shift it from).

21st Aug 2018, 4:30 pm	#8
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,349	Re: What a mess.. When I had to deal with some Philips goo a few years ago, having removed the affected part, I used some dry earth to work the goo up into a stiff paste that was no longer sticky to handle. Our local top soil is a brick earth that dries out to very fine dust.

21st Aug 2018, 5:14 pm	#9
Refugee Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 5,554	Re: What a mess.. I have found Ambersill FE10 good for belt goo. I had to do the reel clutches on one and the FE10 was kind to the plastic.

22nd Aug 2018, 1:27 pm	#10
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: What a mess.. thanks for your advice guys .... I have the new belt and will start this soon ...yeah ill probably strip and clean ....it needs the speaker changed too as this thumps and bangs on bassy music ...the tandbergs are cruel when you switch them on ..I used to switch the speaker to ext until the power was on !!

23rd Aug 2018, 1:58 pm	#11
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: What a mess.. the metal contamination is salt...somehow it got some on the metal while the lid was off!!

23rd Aug 2018, 2:39 pm	#12
NorfolkDaveUK Banned Join Date: May 2018 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 605	Re: What a mess.. Did it come from a coastal region ? Edit : Ohh you live in Margate, say no more. Its in the air assuming you`ve had it a while.

23rd Aug 2018, 4:21 pm	#13
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: What a mess.. yes I do ...but looks like some has fallen onto it...lol I have no idea how this could have happened..!!!!

31st Aug 2018, 10:20 pm	#14
FrankB Heptode Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Olympia, Washington, USA. Posts: 664	Re: What a mess.. Yup. The old "Melting Belt/Tire Syndrome". If I had a dollar for every one of those I cleaned up, I'd be in awesome financial shape for life. Don't get that stuff on your pants. If you do, it's there for "life". Also a real pain to get off your hands, so rubber gloves are indicated. I found that denatured alcohol worked quite well to remove it. I also used long cotton swabs and plenty of clean, white rags to take it off. (The "clean, white rags" were neither when I was done. Just throw them in the garbage.) I found buying the swabs by the 100 pk or gross made the price a lot cheaper too. IIRC it was from .30- .40 each from the local chemists or $ 12:00- $18.00/ 1000 from them. No brainer there. Just shop around a bit. (I am on my 2nd thousand now and about to buy another pk.) I am thinking typewriter platen cleaner might also work, but am out of it from rebuilding the really old daisy wheel printers. I am the only one in my area that still has the factory class cert. for the "oldie moldies" anymore.

1st Sep 2018, 10:50 am	#16
Boater Sam Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines. Posts: 3,897	Re: What a mess.. I don't know what the rubber is but there was a warning about sticky rubber on burnt cars containing hydrofluoric acid which is particularly nasty stuff, I lost all my finger nails with it long ago, could have lost my hands.

1st Sep 2018, 10:51 am	#17
Refugee Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 5,554	Re: What a mess.. I once "saved" a little bit of solvent in a plastic cup and a few minutes later I turned round to find a wet sticky disk of plastic on the bench.

2nd Sep 2018, 10:53 am	#19
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,349	Re: What a mess.. On a first aiders' refresher course in the mid- 1990's, one of the attendees worked at a vehicle dismantlers. He warned us not to attempt to salvage anything from (what were then) modern cars that had been damaged by fire. The problem was that certain type of synthetic sealant could be decomposed by heat into something highly toxic, possibly the Hydroflouric Acid mentioned above. To dismantle such cars, they had to wear a full body protection suit that was disposed of afterwards. He said that the stuff was so toxic that getting it on a digit or other body part, could necessitate its amputation. AFAIR as long as there had been no fire, there was no problem, but of course it is possible that decomposition could also happen over time, as with Philips goo.

2nd Sep 2018, 2:43 pm	#20
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,643	Re: What a mess.. Can we get back on topic please, a tape recorder is highly unlikely to have brake pipes, even if it does have brakes!