Alba record player model ID

[jon_the_id]

Hi all,

Can anbody please give me a model number for the ALBA record player pictured below?

It isn't in my possession, a freind has it, apparently it is working but needs a new stylus. I haven't found out which cartridge it has yet, but would like to know the general spec of the unit so I can advise on a suitable cartridge upgrade if the one in it is not appropriate or is dead.

Thanks,
Jon

[Edward Huggins]

Looks like an ALBA Model 209. This will need a high-output cartridge if the original has failed. It's only possible to buy a Mono-only type now - BSR H TC8. This will be fine for old Mono LPs, 45s and 78s - but it will permanently damage Stereo records.

[jon_the_id]

It does look similar to a 209, but it isn't. See attached pic of a 209 for comparison. It is a later model, but I don't know the model number, or the circuitry. I was hoping somebody may recognise it.

I got the owner to remove the cartridge, which turned out to be a BSR X1H, which I know is not stereo compatible. I have advised them to replace it with a BSR X5H (which definitely is stereo compatible), they have bought an X5H with clip and stylus from ebay which should be an easy fit.

I disagree that you can only get mono high output carts now. You can get reconditioned TC8S cartridges, but they cost a lot and are very heavy and I think even though they are stereo carts they aren't that gentle. SX1Hs and similar are also available on ebay. There are also reproduction SC12Hs available (I only found this out today) - called Banpa BP2ATC. Available on Amazon UK, I found this out from this site:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vinyl/comme...artridges_are/

(I have no idea how good these carts are, but SC12Hs are scarce and expensive now so I thought it may help other forum members. I know the SC12H is a ceramic cart and isn't as high output as an X5H and may need load resistors to avoid losing bass, but I have used them successfully in two-valve record players previously).

I couldn't see the point recommmending a stereo cart for this deck as it would have to be wired mono anyway, so the best option was a stereo-compatible high output mono crystal cart, hence the X5H. I know it isn't going to be hi-fi . . .

Cheers,
Jon

[Edward Huggins]

Just to re-assure the OP that the BSR X1H is stereo-compatible.
It is a later version than the well known BSR X5H.

The OP also references a BSR TC8S stereo cartridge, this is a medium-output crystal and not really suitable for single-stage amps such as in this ALBA.

[ms660]

There appears to be a picture of one in an old Graffton catalogue circa 1966/1967 no model number or model name given, same for the other Alba on the same page.

Wonder if they had a model number as such?:

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/156359418289796853/

Lawrence.

[jon_the_id]

Thanks, that is definitely the one. There are two for sale on ebay at the moment around the £50 mark (not that I am going to buy them) but sadly no model numbers on either. The seller of one states it is a valve powered unit (which is to be expected) so I think it is likely a one or two valve setup.

I went through all the ALBA record players listed at radiomuseum, but still no joy.

Jon

[AC/HL]

Perhaps you, or the owner, could take a look inside. There appear to be four screws holding the motor board. A quick photo would be useful to confirm identification.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by jon_the_id

I disagree that you can only get mono high output carts now. You can get reconditioned TC8S cartridges, but they cost a lot and are very heavy and I think even though they are stereo carts they aren't that gentle.

They're more than just heavy!

They have the same lack of compliance as the old mono TC8 and will do the same amount of damage to modern stereo records as the mono one is likely to do. However, they are a decent old cartridge and I quite like them, but don't play your decent prog rock stereo LPs with one. It's all been discussed and done to death before on here if you do a search, so no need to go over what's already been said.

I'm very familiar with this model of Alba player and I can tell you exactly what's in it. It's a live chassis two valve, rectifier plus pentode single stage amplifier, which needs a high output crystal cartridge to drive it fully. You won't need a circuit diagram as there's nothing to it and it's the same as all the others of this design. If you've seen one, you've seen them all.

Edit: I've just looked back through my files and found a picture that I took of the innards of one:-

[Edward Huggins]

The only difference in the circuits between the 2 ALBA record players mentioned here is that one has a tone control (a pot and one cap) and the other does not. As a guide, all the post BSR TC8 series cartridges that begin with an X, are either stereo or stereo compatible. The high-output types were X1, X3 and X5.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by jon_the_id

I got the owner to remove the cartridge, which turned out to be a BSR X1H, which I know is not stereo compatible. I have advised them to replace it with a BSR X5H (which definitely is stereo compatible), they have bought an X5H with clip and stylus from ebay which should be an easy fit.

I think you're getting this all round your neck a bit. There's nothing wrong with the original cartridge regarding its stereo compatibility as far as I know, and I think Edward has said about the same. There's probably also nothing wrong with the original cartridge function wise, either - have you tested it? You may be spending money on parts you don't need and you're just jumping the gun without finding out what's needed first.

Regarding the picture of the 'innards' that I posted above, it may not be of an actual Alba branded one, but of an identical 'off-brand' one, but they're all the same and look identical on the outside. Basically, they're a record player in a cardboard box, so not worth spending a lot of money on, but they work surprisingly well for what they are and can be carried around like a little suitcase. Always remember to put the deck speed control into the 'N' position when not in use, otherwise you may get flat spots on the idler wheel.

[david freeman]

Hi
As far as I’m aware, the BSR X1 cartridges are not stereo compatible. The first BSR stereo compatible cartridges were the X3 range in 1967.
The X1 range superseded the TC8 range around 1964.
The X5 range came out in 1968.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by david freeman

Hi
As far as I’m aware, the BSR X1 cartridges are not stereo compatible.

Thanks for this information David.

Have you actually got proof that these are not stereo compatible?

As far as I know these use a ST8 type flip under stylus with a flexible plastic shank, so although not the best, they ARE stereo compatible.

Happy to be proved wrong if you can provide the evidence - I'm not intimately familiar with all the different types.

[teetoon]

Hi Techman. I'm not familiar with the X1 so I looked through my trusty Points on Pick Ups and here is the proof that it was indeed a mono cartridge.
You live and learn.

David.

[Techman]

Hi David,

Thanks for that image, which proves that it is in fact stereo compatible.

The question was that we know it's mono, but whether it was stereo compatible - and it is as far as I can tell from the picture, but I probably wouldn't play really decent stereo cut records with it.

Others may disagree.

[astro63]

The BSR X1H orange/reddish colour seemed to been slightly altered, i have 2 of them, one will only take the ST3/4 metal shank type, the other will take the ST8 plastic shank, the hard rubber part where the needle tip end sits are different , so wonder if the later one was altered to be stereo compatable using the ST8

[teetoon]

I think you have to read the text in full.
To me it clearly states that this was for reproducing Mono Cut records only.

" Both are crystal types for MONO use "

Otherwise they wouldn't be pointing out the fact that Mono pressings were being discontinued and so the cartridge would not be suitable for stereo pressings.
That's how I read it.

David.

[jon_the_id]

Thanks for the conclusive proof that the X1H is not stereo compatible. The determining factor of stereo compatibility is not whether or not the cartridge takes a stylus with a metal or a plastic shaft, it is in fact whether the cartridge gas sufficient vertical compliance so as not to destroy the stereo information.

Seeing as there is a lot of confusion regarding stereo compatibility of various BSR carts, it would be really helpful if a 'sticky' post was composed listing which BSR carts are and which are not. There is a member on here called 'Ben' I think who has really good knowledge of these issues, I wonder if he could help with this.

Thanks,
Jon

[Techman]

Actually I don't think it is conclusive proof. The text can be read to mean either. It says the later cartridge can be used as a replacement, which could mean that it replaces a damaged or failed earlier type. It doesn't say that the earlier cartridge (X1H) is not stereo compliant. Remember, stereo records were on the go long before the X1H was even thought of! The X1H is compliant by its very construction - in my opinion.

[david freeman]

Hi
The BSR X1H and M were categorically NOT stereo compatible cartridges.
They were direct replacements for the TC8H and M turnover cartridges, but using the “new” flip over stylus design.
Following the Walton M1 which was the first stereo compatible cartridge, BSR brought out the X3 range which WERE stereo compatible.
Although there were plenty of stereo records and players around, it wasn’t until 1967 that the record producers realised that it was not commercially viable to produce both stereo and mono pressings of the same record.
This is what lead to the development of stereo compatible cartridges which enabled the playing of stereo records on the mono mass market record players.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by david freeman

but using the “new” flip over stylus design.

Exactly!

The "new" flip over (or flip under) design was designed for its stereo compatibility. Construction wise they would seem to be stereo compatible and I've not yet seen any documentation that says (or proves) otherwise.