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Old 9th Oct 2018, 1:37 pm   #1
Paddy_Whack
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Default PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

Hi. I recently purchased a PYE Radiogram Model No. 1221/1 It's in excellent condition but the radio and record player aren't outputting any sound, other than an intermittent crack from the speakers, both reading 12 ohms out of circuit.
So, to try and get this lovely piece of gear working, first off l need a schematic. I have searched for a number of weeks without success for same. I haven't seen or worked on a valve circuit since the early '80's in Radar school, so this project will take me back a few years!
The Model number itself is causing some confusion also, as it isn't a very popular type??
I am new to the forum, so l hope l ain't breaking any rules?? I did try the purchase page but it doesn't sell info to R O Ireland, unfortunately.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Pat.
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Old 9th Oct 2018, 2:06 pm   #2
paulsherwin
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

You are very welcome Pat. We have quite a few members in the Republic.

A photo will help.

You may or may not know that Pye had a substantial operation in Dundrum, Dublin making stuff for the Irish market, so your radiogram may come from there. If so then service information is unlikely to exist in UK sources, though there may be a similar UK model.

People in other EU countries can't order service info from this site directly because of complex VAT charging rules. Email the link on the service info page and the site owner will organise something for you.
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Old 9th Oct 2018, 2:34 pm   #3
Paddy_Whack
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

Thanks for the reply, Paul. Yup, PYE were a large employer in Ireland many years ago.
I forgot to include the full model type in the thread, mainly because l had forgotten it. Its a PYE Cambridge Radiogram Model No. 1221/C.
I will dig out that e-mail and see what info is available.
I have yet to get stuck into this project. I am still working out how l can get at the electrics of it!
If l can't find any info, l will take some pic's of the PCB's as l believe some of you recognise the various stages from photo's
Cheers,
Pat.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 9:23 am   #4
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

That must be one on the last valve radio grams made by Pye, the record deck looks to have been produced when transistor units were being made.
Post the valve line up and photos of the chassis , there could well be a very similar chassis produced and used by Ekco and Ferranti.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 9:51 am   #5
Paddy_Whack
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

Thanks for your response, Frank. As l mentioned above, l haven't actually gotten around to having a right go at getting into the electrics of it yet. I have been working on an exercise bike for a neighbour that had a stroke and requires this piece of gear. This is done now, so l am about to get stuck into this new project. The unit itself is in absolutely pristine condition. Not a scratch of any sort on it. The pic doesn't do it justice as it looks like the material in front of the speakers is stained, but it isn't. Its a beautiful unit! (Though my wife won't allow it stay in the house, even if l get it working! )
My hope is to get it going and buy a "Bat Out Of Hell" Album on vinyl and use it as bait...
So, l will get the screwdrivers out and whip off the back panel. It looks like l may have to drop some of the electrics down from the top as well and onto the ground?? I will see how l am getting on. I doubt l could trouble-shoot it in it's current position without causing a monumental short circuit with a meter probe or oscilloscope croc clip etc. I don't want to make it any worse!

I hope between us we can get her swinging again!
P.S. The turntable works etc, just no sound, apart from that loud "crackle" from the Amp...
Regards,
Pat.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 6:43 pm   #6
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

HHi Pat,
radiomuseum.org has docs for PYE Cambridge 1202 and 1212 too_eventuell are there usefull for you?
Best regards, Karl
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 12:46 pm   #7
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

Thanks for all the help with this.
Last night, l had a look at the unit. Established that two nuts on the underside of the unit holds all the electrics in position. All that seems to be left are a series of wires that lead into the underside of the turntable. I would have preferred for now, to leave the turntable in position, in case it doesn't like being disturbed. The downside to that is it leaves me with very little length on those wires to the turntable. In its current position, there's absolutely no hope of troubleshooting any board.
I attach some poor enough pic's of the various PCB's. The audio amps seem to be separate PCB's, but 100% the same. Number on both module's is LP1162/1 S. Underneath, it has 73 24. Perhaps it's a Batch number?? 1973. Week 24
The switch section, that has the switches for the various bands of the tuner and the Gramophone, has a number LP1164/1 S. Underneath, it has 72 35.
It has all transistor circuits, no valves.
As l mentioned, there's no audio, either from tuner or record player, but an odd crack over the low hiss from the Amp.
Speakers are driven from a whopper of an output transformer. I understand the theory of operation of these beast's but haven't worked on them much, if at all. I may have replaced one a few years ago in a small guitar amp.
Unless directed otherwise, my next move will be to remove the turntable and disconnect those five or six wires to it and get the electrics onto a desk and see where it takes me. I am a little confused as to where to start. If its an Amp issue, it would not give cracks on output. It seems to be a common fault in that whatever it is, it's taking out both audio sources. Does this unit share a pre-amp??
Thanks in advance for any further assistance on this. If l could be directed towards what schematics l need to purchase from radiomuseum that would be a big step forward.
Regards,
Pat.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 3:00 pm   #8
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

I couldn't find any circuits but will have another try. This link gives information on the LP1162 audio amplifiers and a link to a circuit, hopefully they both will be ok in your gram.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=126929


It looked a bit too modern for valves so I am not surprised for it to be transistor.

You may be lucky and find its just dirty push button switches, one can live in hope, otherwise is voltage measurements and signal tracing to find the fault.
Get the audio side working and then if required fix the RF/IF side.
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Last edited by Nuvistor; 12th Oct 2018 at 3:22 pm.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 3:11 pm   #9
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

Hmm. Those Mullard modules are unfortunately quite well known, and you will find lots of threads about them if you search the forum. The LP1164 uses the AF11x series of germanium transistors which are notorious for internal short circuits, and that may be the problem here. Search the forum for "tin whiskers" for lots of stuff on this subject. The transistors can be changed but it's not a particularly easy job, particularly if the modules are difficult to access.

This old thread is a good starting point: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ead.php?t=5058
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 3:17 pm   #10
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

The only manual I can find but not the same model but uses a LP1164 model is the Pye 1216 /Ekco SRG608.
https://www.service-data.com/product...50/2175/a11550

It won't give you all the information but at least it will show how they used the RF/IF modules, the Audio is discrete but appears to have a similar transistor circuit to the LP1162 module.

Information on the LP1164/1 module, I don't think it's available on the service info link at the top of this page.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/mullardval_lp11641.html
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Last edited by Nuvistor; 12th Oct 2018 at 3:22 pm.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 3:35 pm   #11
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

The ERT service sheet for the Pye 1221 (without /C) shows modules for AM IF and the two amplifiers and doesn't even say what the modules are (just that they should be returned to Pye for replacement if they fail).

I was waiting to see the photos in the hope that the /C version was different, but sadly not.

The manual is attached, though it is probably not much use really. This will be on my new DVD-ROM in due course too.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 3:46 pm   #12
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

Although not shown in the ERT sheet the LP1164 is used for FM IF as well as AM.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 9:46 pm   #13
Paddy_Whack
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Default Re: PYE 1221/C Radiogram Manual/Schematic

All,
Thanks for all this information! From going through all the posts and old threads that were linked, l fear l have bitten off a little more than l can chew!
It's several years since l really got stuck into a PCB to carry out some serious debugging. I suspect this project will require some heavy duty troubleshooting!
It will be next week before l get to look into this further. (Daughter home from Canada tomorrow morning.........)
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