UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 30th Oct 2023, 4:18 pm   #1
tube tv fan
Diode
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece.
Posts: 6
Default Replacing 90 degree CRT with 70 degree CRT.

Hello everyone. I am trying to find a replacement for a broken AW 53-80 picture tube. I tried finding a sacrificial tv with the same picture tube but I was unlucky. I found on eBay a brand new 21YP4 tube, with the same pinout and almost identical voltages. But it is a 70° tube instead of 90. Is it worth the try or I will end up losing money? If someone has the proper replacement tube, I am happy to buy it.
tube tv fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st Oct 2023, 11:32 am   #2
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Hi TV tube fan

First, what an attractive part of the world you live in and its history must kindle the imagination of all who visit the City.

Shipping a CRT from anywhere will require expert packing and some cost and whilst all is possible, it might be easier to source locally or through R&TV contacts.

Are you working for or do you have any contacts in the Thessaloniki Museum?

This would be my first "port of call," the same applies to the Hellenic and Neo Kosmos Museums.

Do you have the equivalent of Facebook Marketplace or Digital/newsprint classified adverts you can search or post a request? Not for the tube type but vintage 51 cm TV's.

Albania, North Macedonia and Bulgaria are not too far away and they may have amateur R&TV clubs and Museums that can be contacted.

Hope this helps

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st Oct 2023, 1:02 pm   #3
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,436
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Is the CRT mounted on the chassis of your TV set?
Examination of the chassis will confirm if there is space to move the tube rear support back 50mm or so. One thing is certain, for the sake of safety you must not spend too much time handling this large CRT.
If the CRT is fitted separately within the cabinet the tube substitution might be a bit easier.
An alternative CRT if one can be found is the MW53-80, a magnetically focused 90 degree tube. A focus magnet assembly will be required for the MW53-80.
The UK made Mazda CRM212 is similar.
Information for the 21YP4: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/2/21YP4.pdf

DFWB.
FERNSEH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Nov 2023, 10:00 pm   #4
tube tv fan
Diode
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsons View Post
Hi TV tube fan

First, what an attractive part of the world you live in and its history must kindle the imagination of all who visit the City.

Shipping a CRT from anywhere will require expert packing and some cost and whilst all is possible, it might be easier to source locally or through R&TV contacts.

Are you working for or do you have any contacts in the Thessaloniki Museum?

This would be my first "port of call," the same applies to the Hellenic and Neo Kosmos Museums.

Do you have the equivalent of Facebook Marketplace or Digital/newsprint classified adverts you can search or post a request? Not for the tube type but vintage 51 cm TV's.

Albania, North Macedonia and Bulgaria are not too far away and they may have amateur R&TV clubs and Museums that can be contacted.

Hope this helps

Chris
First of all, thanks for the kind words! If you ever come to Thessaloniki, we can meet each other. I have a personal collection of TVs and also a friend of mine has converted his house into a time capsule and we are working on some TV sets.
Unfortunately, here in my country the valve TV sets are considered "bulky garbage" and no one wants them. They are very rare here, even the cheapest b&w sets are hard to find. Not to mention that not even a single European made valve colour TV set exists here. Because when the colour TV transmitters stated here, transistor colour sets had already become available.
So, finding a replacement here is almost impossible.
Thanks for the information about the neighbour Balkan countries, I'll check out for forums!
tube tv fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Nov 2023, 10:01 pm   #5
tube tv fan
Diode
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Is the CRT mounted on the chassis of your TV set?
Examination of the chassis will confirm if there is space to move the tube rear support back 50mm or so. One thing is certain, for the sake of safety you must not spend too much time handling this large CRT.
If the CRT is fitted separately within the cabinet the tube substitution might be a bit easier.
An alternative CRT if one can be found is the MW53-80, a magnetically focused 90 degree tube. A focus magnet assembly will be required for the MW53-80.
The UK made Mazda CRM212 is similar.
Information for the 21YP4: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/2/21YP4.pdf

DFWB.
Yes, the picture tube is mounted on chassis. Fortunately enough, there is space.
Thank you!
tube tv fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Nov 2023, 10:15 am   #6
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Hi TGenerV tube fan

Thank you for your invitation to meet, when next in Greece, I would be delighted to follow this up.

Now, back to the use of a narrow angle CRT in place of a wider one.

Generally, the problems arise the other way around as more scanning power is required. Improvement in scan coil and LOPT design and or higher HT lines were the answer TV set manufacturers employed.

However, there is one non-variable that must be taken into account and that is the scan coils. These must match the design of the TV circuit and be suitable for the scanning angle.

The scan coils, associated field output transformer and LOPT are usually made by a specialist supplier to meet both the CRT manufacturer's specification and set designers and are sometimes interchangeable.

What is the make and model of the set?

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Nov 2023, 10:38 am   #7
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Hi again

It may come to nothing but I have found a Philips 21TG100U, which also uses the AW53-80 CRT

The set is in Hemel Hempstead which is 30km from Harrow.

I have asked the seller to advise the model number and if confirmed, I'm happy to follow up on the opportunity for you.

I do have a B&K 470 CRT tester and I'm sure that the right tube base is amongst the many I have.

The set is for sale at 60 Euros but how the CRT could get shipped to you is another matter.

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Nov 2023, 8:12 pm   #8
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Correction. It is a Philips 2168U and uses the AW53-80

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 9:00 am   #9
tube tv fan
Diode
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Hello! What a nice surprise! I'd be delighted to buy the crt you found, nevermind the cost. If you test the crt and the result is better than mediocre, I will buy it immediately, plus the shipping cost and the cost of your fuel to travel there. Thanks again for your help!
The TV set is a Nordmende Souverän
tube tv fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 11:46 am   #10
FrankB
Heptode
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Olympia, Washington, USA.
Posts: 661
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

You will need to change the yoke for certain. Possibly the vertical output transformer, flyback, and maybe some other parts in the deflection circuit as well.
Not familiar with your original CRT, but possibly changing the base connector also. I would also be concerned about the mounting for the YP4.

It would be a lot of work and possibly a large cost, but would make a great experiment.

The 21YP4 was a very common CRT here in the U.S. I replaced dozens of them over the decades.

You might like to contact the Early Television Foundation here in the U.S. and see if they might have the original CRT you need. If they do, it would save mass time, money and work. Shipping would likely be quite a nightmare due to how fragile CRT's can be. It would need to be shipped as "Hazardous Material" if it goes by airplane, as the materials in it are classified as hazardous by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, last I looked.
I wish you good luck on your project. please let us know how it turns out.
FrankB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 12:22 pm   #11
Richard_FM
Octode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,989
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

It's interesting to know what older sets still exist in other countries.

Maartin mentioned in another thread very few later larger sized B&W sets exist in the Netherlands because there was no cheaper licence option for monochrome so most people switched to colour when they could afford to.
__________________
Hello IT: Have you Tried Turning It Off & On Again?
Richard_FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 1:59 pm   #12
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Hi again

This is some television and has been discussed in an earlier BVWS Post.

Search on this site:Nordmende Souverän. The post includes the manufacturer's illustrated brochure.

One fact stands out more than any is the CRT type.

On both the post with the manufacturer's brochure given by by Josh Ward and more details by German Dalek, the CRT is shown as AW53-88 or AW53-90. Both these CRTs are 110 degrees and NOT AW53-80 90 degree CRT's.

Before any further hopes are raised or money is spent, please double check the CRT type and if possible a photo of the CRT you have.

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 2:21 pm   #13
tube tv fan
Diode
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsons View Post
Hi again

This is some television and has been discussed in an earlier BVWS Post.

Search on this site:Nordmende Souverän. The post includes the manufacturer's illustrated brochure.

One fact stands out more than any is the CRT type.

On both the post with the manufacturer's brochure given by by Josh Ward and more details by German Dalek, the CRT is shown as AW53-88 or AW53-90. Both these CRTs are 110 degrees and NOT AW53-80 90 degree CRT's.

Before any further hopes are raised or money is spent, please double check the CRT type and if possible a photo of the CRT you have.

Chris
Hi. I have triple-checked it. There is a blue Valvo sticker on the picture tube stating it is the type AW 53-80
tube tv fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 5:24 pm   #14
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Hi TV Tube fan

OK this means that it is a Nordmende Souverän L59 and not the models discussed on the forum.

I have messaged the TV seller and asked that he confirm the model is a Philips 2186U. I am 99 per cent sure but nevertheless, the seller has said that the set is in storage and will check ASAP, but this could be a week or two.

In the meantime, I shall get quotations for shipping and here I'm thinking the set complete might be better than removing the CRT. The set will give the CRT better security than boxing it up on its own with little additional weight.

It will still require a box so I will look out for something 53cm diagonal Hmm.

I'll keep you posted and in the meantime send you a PM to make sure that any messages can be flagged on my email site.

I do hope you didn't mind me questioning the CRT type but a a simple error could have cost us dear.

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 6:02 pm   #15
tube tv fan
Diode
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree crt with 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsons View Post
Hi TV Tube fan

OK this means that it is a Nordmende Souverän L59 and not the models discussed on the forum.

I have messaged the TV seller and asked that he confirm the model is a Philips 2186U. I am 99 per cent sure but nevertheless, the seller has said that the set is in storage and will check ASAP, but this could be a week or two.

In the meantime, I shall get quotations for shipping and here I'm thinking the set complete might be better than removing the CRT. The set will give the CRT better security than boxing it up on its own with little additional weight.

It will still require a box so I will look out for something 53cm diagonal Hmm.

I'll keep you posted and in the meantime send you a PM to make sure that any messages can be flagged on my email site.

I do hope you didn't mind me questioning the CRT type but a a simple error could have cost us dear.

Chris
No, no problem at all! You did the right thing by questioning the CRT type. My only concern about shipping the whole TV, is that it should definitely travel with the CRT face at the bottom of the box, because the neck is very fragile.
tube tv fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Nov 2023, 10:08 pm   #16
gallowfields
Hexode
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Durham, County Durham, UK.
Posts: 319
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree CRT with 70 degree CRT.

have to agree chris shipping the set complete will probably be the safest method and it gets round those awkward questions about hazardous material .obviously will need a good strong tv box or two and planty of packaging for trip to greece
brian
gallowfields is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Nov 2023, 11:32 am   #17
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree CRT with 70 degree CRT.

Hi Gregory

The cost of shipping goods, including a second-hand TV, from the UK to our nearest neighbour has, I have found, as so many others, now become prohibited. Not only are customs declarations now required with all the extra bureaucracy but an audit trail of all costs which include shipping must now be declared for which tax is now applied. It used to be so different. But I digress.

There is a possibility though of including the TV in a shipment to Vienna next year as my son is moving to Vienna. As an EU citizen, there are no penalties or extra costs.

There is an excellent motorway link to Thessaloniki, if you would check out the cost to you, I will speak to my son.

I had spoken to some of my Greek contacts but convincing them to take a big TV with Christmas gifts fell on deaf ears. Can't imagine why!

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Nov 2023, 5:58 pm   #18
cmjones01
Nonode
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland and Cambridge, UK
Posts: 2,645
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree CRT with 70 degree CRT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsons View Post
There is a possibility though of including the TV in a shipment to Vienna next year as my son is moving to Vienna. As an EU citizen, there are no penalties or extra costs.
Without wishing to derail the thread, I'd like to add something here. My family and work life is spread between Poland and the UK so I grapple with the customs and shipping issues frequently.

Moving goods around within the EU is very straightforward and cheap, in many cases little more expensive than shipping within one country. So a television in Vienna can be easily moved to Thessaloniki without any paperwork, for example. The most direct route is via Serbia which isn't in the EU, and it looks like a long way round through Romania, adding 3 hours to the journey. But that's a shipping company's problem.

But there's no exception for EU citizens bringing things in to the EU except when they're changing their place of residence in to or out of the EU. Even then full customs documentation is technically required, though no duty or VAT is payable as long as none of the items is disposed of for (I think) 12 months after the move.

It is, of course, perfectly possible to put things in a van and take them across the channel hoping for the best, and in many cases it'll get through. But there's always the risk of the vehicle being challenged by customs officers, at which point the paperwork and costs might start to get considerable.

I don't want to sound negative, but these things aren't simple, and they frequently cost me and my electronics business a lot of time and money.

Chris
__________________
What's going on in the workshop? http://martin-jones.com/
cmjones01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Nov 2023, 12:28 am   #19
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Replacing 90 degree CRT with 70 degree CRT.

Many thanks Chris for clarifying the customs arrangements for EU citizens relocating from the UK to the EU.

This is just what my son and his wife are going to do. It is with their shipment of furniture and personal effects to Vienna which would, in this instance, include the old TV which is a gift.

The low cost of shipping within the EU should help Gregory in getting his set up and running and a good tale over a meal.

I often use my in-law's address in Vienna as many European suppliers no longer supply to a UK address. This makes a good excuse for our family visits to them if ever one was needed!

Chris
simpsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:54 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.