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Old 20th Dec 2015, 11:06 pm   #1
Nickthedentist
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Default Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Hi all,

After a full strip, clean and oil, my 4HF (in a 1963 Dynatron GR7 record player) is finally working well. Very low wow and flutter, and quite reasonable rumble levels for an idler deck with a pressed steel platter.

One niggling problem though is it's hard to switch on. This is done by pulling the arm to the right, but unless you hold it firmly in that position until the platter's up to speed, and then release it gently, the various linkages "bounce" causing the Auto Stop Operating Lever to catch the Striker on the platter spindle, and switch the unit straight off again! It's very annoying and I can't believe it's meant to be like that.

Any ideas, please?

Nick.
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Old 20th Dec 2015, 11:16 pm   #2
Ted Kendall
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Have you tried a careful squint at the arm-rest? Perhaps it's sagging and half operating the stop switch.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 12:27 am   #3
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

.....er, what do you mean by "up to speed"? There's a real hefty old motor in the 4HF and there should be little or no delay in reaching speed. There might be something in the lag on getting up to speed that is affecting the linkage as to your start up problem? Otherwise, just live with the idiosyncracies of the unit, that's what "Vintage Hi Fi" is all about. If you want something "instant", then download an MP3 file instead.....Edward
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 1:16 am   #4
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

I wonder if you have used too low a viscosity lubricant for some of the linkages. I know we generally recommend sewing machine oil or light grease for these sorts of jobs, but where the parts are moving relatively slowly against each other sometimes cheapo 20/50 motor oil or even EP80/90 gear oil is better.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 9:49 am   #5
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Nick

I have just tried my 4HF and the start switch make a definate 'click' as it latches in. Once in, no movement of the arm, other than setting it on the rest or (if the auto stop function is selected) moving the arm to the centre will switch off.

Check that the switch on movement is actually latching the on/off mech.
Incidentally, I've always had the habit of holding the pivot to move the arm to start rather than strain the arm bearings.

Although I appreciate that you cannot do this in your Dynatron application, removing the mounting springs and fixing the deck firmly to a 'motor board' dramatically reduced the rumble in the plinth that I use.

Alan
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 12:41 pm   #6
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Thanks for all the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Kendall View Post
Have you tried a careful squint at the arm-rest? Perhaps it's sagging and half operating the stop switch.
I've had a good look, Ted, but it seems fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
.....er, what do you mean by "up to speed"? There's a real hefty old motor in the 4HF and there should be little or no delay in reaching speed. There might be something in the lag on getting up to speed that is affecting the linkage as to your start up problem? Otherwise, just live with the idiosyncracies of the unit, that's what "Vintage Hi Fi" is all about. If you want something "instant", then download an MP3 file instead.....Edward
Thanks for the suggestion Edward but as someone who's owned about 100 record players of various vintages over the last four decades, I know roughly what to expect of technology of this age. I'm not looking for anything instant, just a machine that's pleasant and easy to use, which it isn't at the moment. By "up to speed", I mean that it takes 1-2 seconds for the platter to reach full speed, especially with a 12" shellac record at 78rpm, which is normal for this kind of equipment, I believe. Much quicker than belt drive machines, slower than decent DDs, about the same as most autochangers (the 4HF may have a bigger motor, but it has a 12" platter too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
I wonder if you have used too low a viscosity lubricant for some of the linkages. I know we generally recommend sewing machine oil or light grease for these sorts of jobs, but where the parts are moving relatively slowly against each other sometimes cheapo 20/50 motor oil or even EP80/90 gear oil is better.
I think you might be barking up the right tree there, Paul, but whatever I put it, I don't want it to cause unneccesary drag on the arm at the end of sides. Interestingly, the end-of-side detection seems to be triggered by the absolute rotational position of the arm as opposed to the usual velocity trip arrangement. I will give this some thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan SP15 View Post
I have just tried my 4HF and the start switch make a definate 'click' as it latches in. Once in, no movement of the arm, other than setting it on the rest or (if the auto stop function is selected) moving the arm to the centre will switch off.

Check that the switch on movement is actually latching the on/off mech.
Thanks for your input too, Alan, and interesting to hear that yours doesn't behave like mine. It's definitely latches perfectly, but then the stop cycle is activated a fraction of a second later, and it's allowed to unlatch.

I will try to post a video. Do you think I could zip it and attach it here?

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 21st Dec 2015 at 12:47 pm.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 4:55 pm   #7
Chiltern
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
I think you might be barking up the right tree there, Paul, but whatever I put it, I don't want it to cause unneccesary drag on the arm at the end of sides. Interestingly, the end-of-side detection seems to be triggered by the absolute rotational position of the arm as opposed to the usual velocity trip arrangement. I will give this some thought.
Service sheet 6, for the 4HF, refers to the end of side detection being of the velocity trip type, perhaps this is the problem.

Alan
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 5:04 pm   #8
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Thanks Alan, so it does. I was misled by the way it also talked about it triggering at a certain point from the centre, thereby meaning certain discs couldn't be played.
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Old 4th Dec 2023, 11:00 pm   #9
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Re-opened by Nicks request.

Cheers

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Old 4th Dec 2023, 11:24 pm   #10
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Thank you Mike

After a mere 8 years of living with this annoying fault, I plucked up the courage to tackle it. The fact that the speed change lifting gear had seized (again) meant I had the deck on the bench, so I spent a few minutes playing around with all the levers, working out what did what.

The cure was embarrassingly simple. A slight turn of the Auto-Stop Lever's adjusting screw was all that was needed. Now it latches and stays latched until the lead-out groove is reached, or the pickup is replaced on its rest. A joy to use, finally!

Thanks again for all the suggestions,

Nick.
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Old 4th Dec 2023, 11:48 pm   #11
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Default Re: Garrard 4HF "bounces" off again when switching on. Any ideas?

Great stuff! I'm sure we've all been caught out by this kind of thing. A slight misadjustment. Often, I suspect some were present right form the factory, and the previous owners just lived with it.
I put up with a reel to reel with weak erasure for years, and when I had it open to work on some other problem, I discovered two resistors were the wrong value!
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