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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 9th Feb 2020, 10:48 pm   #1
DMcMahon
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Default Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Just having a fresh look at a Tandberg 6000X (Model 6021 X) that I started looking at a while back.

The Joystick style tape position operation lever is stiff (very stiff I would say) when selecting "Play". Reasonably easy to move to Free and RWD/FFD.

Looks like there is quite a few things mechanically attached to/driven by the lever in Play position and does not look easy to get to some of them.

So before I start ripping it apart to investigate, I wondered if this stiffness is abnormal or maybe typical etc.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 4:47 pm   #2
John Caswell
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

No it should not be very stiff. I would guess that either grease/oils has oxidised/solidified somewhere, or a s**t metal arm on a steel bearing has seized.
I have initially had some success where this has happened by applying IPA on the end of a screwdriver to the suspect part and if possible working it into the suspect area. This often cures the problem temporarily but I think you will need to do some dismantling, cleaning and re lubricating to cure this problem.

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Old 10th Feb 2020, 4:59 pm   #3
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

I usually find pressing the pinchroller forward by hand and operating the joystick will help prove or disprove parts of the mechanism saving time.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 6:36 pm   #4
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Thank you Glyn & John, I will do some more investigations.

David
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Old 11th Feb 2020, 12:56 am   #5
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

There are a number of things you need to de grease/de gunk for this to improve. This is from my experience with the older grey topped models, but since these machines all use the same basic design, I expect much of it is applicable across the board:

- Sliding linkages around spool area.
- Pinch roller arm and associated pressure pad linkages.
- Arc segment that goes between joystick and pinch roller arm. The pivot this is on seizes, and in fact the whole area sandwiched between the main chassis and the headbridge area is usually sticky.
- Sliding bracket linking joystick Play position to reel brakes /clutches.
- linkages on motor switch (near autostop feeler).

HTH

You can usually gain just enough access without dismantling too much.
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Old 11th Feb 2020, 10:12 am   #6
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Thank you Ben, that is very useful, I just need to find/make time to make a start.

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Old 11th Feb 2020, 4:58 pm   #7
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
Just having a fresh look at a Tandberg 6000X (Model 6021 X) that I started looking at a while back.

The Joystick style tape position operation lever is stiff (very stiff I would say) when selecting "Play". Reasonably easy to move to Free and RWD/FFD.

Looks like there is quite a few things mechanically attached to/driven by the lever in Play position and does not look easy to get to some of them.

So before I start ripping it apart to investigate, I wondered if this stiffness is abnormal or maybe typical etc.
I should have also said that I also have a Tandberg 3000X & 1200X with same issue, otherwise in isolation my original question might have seemed a silly thing to ask.
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Old 11th Feb 2020, 6:01 pm   #8
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

As suggested by Glyn pushing the pinch roller forward by hand makes a noticeable improvement to the Joystick stiffness, but Joystick still somewhat stiff so problem in at least 2 areas and probably as Ben indicated possibly a combination of several things gummed up.

Pushing the pinch roller forward by hand feels really graunchy, think its the arc segment Ben refers to, so first will have a look at that.
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Old 11th Feb 2020, 11:12 pm   #9
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Progress very slow, cleaned and re-lubricated the arc segment and its plastic/Delrin detent/wheel, the pinch wheel assy movement now feels much better on its own.

The Joystick to Play position is still quite stiff, even with the pinch wheel manually pushed forward. Have been trying to see how to get at the various related mechanisms below the brass coloured front plate, but so far have drawn a blank.

Have removed various screws from the front panel plate in the hope that it might lift up a little, but it is really solidly fixed somehow. Seems to be no rear access to these parts.
So more studying required.
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 10:38 pm   #10
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

The 6000X Service manual has lovely photos of the top of the unit with the upper mounting plate removed and also of the upper mounting plate removed looking at the underside of it (the mounting plate). But of course no information/instructions how to remove it.

This initially would seem to imply that the upper mounting plate does come off, but I wonder if the photos were taken before the unit was fully assembled just to identify the various parts shown on the photos.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 9:41 am   #11
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Removed the metal side panels and bottom plate to see better and removed more fixings but no sign of the upper mounting plate coming loose yet alone coming off.

Looks like to remove it would be a gigantic major strip down where the risk would be larger than the gain, so will have to continue with it in place.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 9:59 am   #12
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

I have always managed to work on these without removing that headbridge plate. It is true that it would involve fairly extensive disassembly. There are the pinch roller linkages and return spring, the capstan and pots to think about to name just three.

Having the chassis out of the case is essential. Use long handled screwdrivers and Q tips to reach those harder to access areas.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 10:08 am   #13
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Yes agree Ben, if the plate had been reasonably easy to remove it would have made life easier for proper cleaning of those mechanisms hidden by the plate.

While looking at it last night I noticed that on the Take Up Reel Table there is some decomposing something gunge below the top of the table, clutch material I guess.

Looking at the Supply Reel Table, it looks like it has had some sort of clutch repair as I can see sections of what looks like cork.

A very quick look and it wasn't really obvious how to remove/strip down the reel tables.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 4:19 pm   #14
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

There should be a circlip on the back of the machine where the spindle for the reel table protrudes through the bearing mounted in the main deck. In some models there is a circuit board or other object in the way which must be removed in order to gain easy access. Once the circlip is off (beware of any washers between the circlip and bearing which can drop off), it should be possible to pull the reel tables straight up.

The reel table clutches on these machines are notorious for desintegrating. They can be replaced using pieces of cork, or you can buy a replacement set from Lasse Hovde here: http://nrhf.no/kjopsalg/repdeler.php .
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 5:51 pm   #15
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Many thanks Ricard, it sounds fairly easy, many things are easy once you know of course
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Old 18th Feb 2020, 10:46 am   #16
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Not currently intending to disturb the reel clutches, but had a quick visual look at the rear to see how the reel tables are secured.

The Supply one has a white hexagon shaped plastic piece on the end of the shaft , do not know if it is a push on or screw on fitting, PCB and cables a little bit in the way but can be accessed.

The Take Up one has a white pulley for the tape counter drive belt, cannot easily see how the pulley is retained or what table fixing if any is below the pulley. The pulley is largely covered by the mains transformer, looks like it could be fun getting proper access for removal of the reel table.
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Old 18th Feb 2020, 11:19 am   #17
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Mildly blushing as I read your post ... the circlips are used in the older 1950s Tandbergs (actually I think they are 'violin-shaped' springs, whatever the technical name may be, but provide the same function). Since the 1960s they use the nylon (or delrin or similar) nuts (left) and pulleys (right) just as you've noted.

They are screwed on. The easiest way to remove them is usually to hold them stationary (use pliers for the hexagonal one, for the pulley just hold it with your fingers), and turn the reel table in the opposite direction. There is no grub screw, they fit tight enough not to come off under normal use. Thus even if they are a bit inaccessible it's not that hard to remove and remount them.

When remounting the vertical play of the shaft is adjusted using the nut/pulley. Again, hold the pulley/nut stationary and turn the reel table while pressing on it. It's quite a nice design.

Just be a bit careful when they do come off, as there will be at least one washer between the bearing and the nut/pulley.
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Old 18th Feb 2020, 4:49 pm   #18
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Thank you Ricard for the useful update. Presumably when the pulley is removed there is something else retaining the reel table like a Delrin nut as per the other side, i.e. the pulley itself cannot be securing the reel table otherwise it would not rotate .

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Old 18th Feb 2020, 6:00 pm   #19
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Well, yes, actually, the pulley is screwed onto the shaft of the reel table, and thus rotates with it. It fits just tight enough so that it doesn't work itself loose in normal operation, yet doesn't
crack from the continuous force applied by the shaft being inserted in the threads and it's still easy enough to turn manually when dismantling. There is a washer which acts as a bearing for the pulley (as there is for the nut), but I would think the material being smooth and shiny enough also helps. (I seem to recall though that there actually is a nut with a hexagonal surface mechanically integrated into the pulley, but it's all one piece of plastic).
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Old 18th Feb 2020, 6:17 pm   #20
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Default Re: Tandberg 6000X Stiff Operating Lever in Play Position

Thank you for the update, still find it hard to understand how the pulley is actually holding/securing the reel table in place to the metalwork, i.e. if the pulley is screwed down tight to secure the table, then the pulley will not then rotate.

I am probably missing something in my understanding, I am sure it will all become crystal clear once I get my hands on it properly. I think this is the table with the decomposed clutch material so may well get my hands on it later if the clutch operation plays up.
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