Closure of 405 line service - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

alanmoore · 3rd Jan 2019, 12:00 pm

Just a thought ,that it was 34 years ago today that the BBC and ITV closed down their 405 line tv transmissions .
Who would have thought in 1985 ,some of us in 2019,with the aid of an Aurora or other standards converter would still be watching and enjoying 405 line tv at the end of the second decade of the 21st century!
Regards Alan.

1100 man · 3rd Jan 2019, 12:19 pm

Coincidentally, I've just been reading the first issue of '405 Alive' from March '89. There is a good article in there about the closedown and the sequence in which the different regions ceased transmission.

In fact, I'd forgotten just how good '405 Alive' was as a magazine and it's great that all the issues are now available on the BVWS website (you don't need to be a member to access them). Definitely well worth re- reading.

It's great that modern technology (and the dedication of the people that designed & built it) has allowed us to have the Aurora for very little money thus making 405 TV's actually usable again to watch programmes. Standards converters were a real problem back in 1989!

All the best
Nick

peter_scott · 3rd Jan 2019, 12:24 pm

I had read that the service would be switched off after the Queen's Christmas message in December 1984 and was all ready to take photos of the final moments. I was most disappointed when it continued on and I wasn't around when the actual switch off took place.

Peter

Peter.N. · 3rd Jan 2019, 12:35 pm

We had already changed to UHF from Crystal Palace when we lived in Kent, but when we moved to the West Country in 1970 we were back on 405 again for a couple of years from Stockland Hill.

Peter

stevehertz · 3rd Jan 2019, 12:44 pm

The devils turned the power down from Sutton Coldfield well before the end date. I know this because I had a massive four element yagi that used to provide massive signal strength to my sets. Over time this high signal level mysteriously reduced. At great time and trouble I ended up putting it outside on the roof and still the signal was very poor. It was all an attempt to make people drop their old sets I reckon.

SteveCG · 3rd Jan 2019, 1:28 pm

I rather enjoyed watching the BBC TV news that announced that 405 line TV had closed down - on a 405 line set picking up the channel B1 signal from Llandrindod Wells.

A little later I actually bought a 625-405 standards converter from the BBC (it came from Wenvoe). I had it for a few years but found it was almost impossible to keep it working properly so it went and was replaced by a Pineapple. A slight change in size and weight !!

Yes, both Sutton and Wenvoe were running on greatly reduced power at the end as I also had been receiving them - even successfully recording using a modified 405 line TV chassis to provide the sound and vision into a standard Panasonic VHS recorder.

Richard_FM · 3rd Jan 2019, 1:50 pm

I read somewhere that Sutton Coldfield developed problems in it's later years & it wasn't considered to be worth fixing, is there any truth to that story?

FERNSEH · 3rd Jan 2019, 1:59 pm

Sutton Coldfield? Didn't the main transmitter fail and the standby TX was pressed into service. An STC CG1 I believe.
In the North-East of England the BBC Pontop Pike transmitter was still delivering good quality pictures right up to the day of the 405 line closedown.

DFWB.

Panrock · 3rd Jan 2019, 2:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz

The devils turned the power down from Sutton Coldfield well before the end date. I know this because I had a massive four element yagi that used to provide massive signal strength to my sets. Over time this high signal level mysteriously reduced. At great time and trouble I ended up putting it outside on the roof and still the signal was very poor. It was all an attempt to make people drop their old sets I reckon.

I believe that was because, by the end, they were down to using one CG1 transmitter (500W). Living in Sedgeberrow in the SW Midlands, I complained so much that I was given a direct phone number for Sutton. I apparently became known there as "the viewer".

Steve

Brigham · 3rd Jan 2019, 2:32 pm

There weren't many of us left at the end.
Ch5 (Pontop Pike) ran with the sound off for three days, before anyone noticed.

stevehertz · 3rd Jan 2019, 4:33 pm

Thanks guys for clearing up my 'SC 405 line problem'. I was sure it wasn't my sets or my aerial. But hey ho, it's history now, and I have no more 405 line sets except for one almost pristine TV22a that has been patiently awaiting restoration for over 30 years. I need one of those round tuits. One day for sure..

mark pirate · 3rd Jan 2019, 6:17 pm

I used my workshop Puratone 405 set right up to the end, the set was 28 years old and still working well.
Sadly it ended up being robbed of it's valves & speaker and taken to the tip.
I remember seeing quite a few 405 sets piled up at the tip, it seems that a few people still used them as second/bedroom sets right up to closedown.

I never thought at the time that they could ever be used again, or I would have collected a few when they were worthless!

Mark

jayceebee · 3rd Jan 2019, 7:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panrock

Living in Sedgeberrow in the SW Midlands, I complained so much that I was given a direct phone number for Sutton. I apparently became known there as "the viewer"

In July 1984 I was given a tour around both Pontop Pike and Burnhope. Pontop was unmanned but at Burnhope there were a number of staff onsite.

They also had a viewer with a direct phone number to the transmitter site. Apparently the CH8 transmitter staff would frequently switch off the audio and the viewer would normally be on the phone within 20 minutes

.

John.

AidanLunn · 3rd Jan 2019, 8:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz

The devils turned the power down from Sutton Coldfield well before the end date. I know this because I had a massive four element yagi that used to provide massive signal strength to my sets. Over time this high signal level mysteriously reduced. At great time and trouble I ended up putting it outside on the roof and still the signal was very poor. It was all an attempt to make people drop their old sets I reckon.

That's already explained here in good detail:

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/features/coldfield/08.shtml

AidanLunn · 3rd Jan 2019, 8:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard_FM

I read somewhere that Sutton Coldfield developed problems in it's later years & it wasn't considered to be worth fixing, is there any truth to that story?

I've read that but am sure it was one of the standards converters for one of the Wenvoe transmitters (there were two - one for BBC Wales and one for BBC1 West). ISTR reading that it had developed a serious black level problem which either couldn't be diagnosed or couldn't be fixed.

Graham G3ZVT · 3rd Jan 2019, 9:22 pm

There was a serious standards converter issue here during the final months of 405 operation, the picture was unwatchable with heavy vertical striations.
Unfortunately I can't now remember which service.
It was either BBC from Holme Moss or ITV from Winter Hill I suppose it could have been BBC on channel 12 from WH but like most people round here we never bothered to upgrade the Band III aerial to a wideband one, and managed with the potent signal intended for Yorkshire.

FERNSEH · 3rd Jan 2019, 9:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambo1152

There was a serious standards converter issue here during the final months of 405 operation, the picture was unwatchable with heavy vertical striations.

A well known fault condition with the original analogue standards converters.

DFWB.

Focus Diode · 3rd Jan 2019, 11:53 pm

I took this off screen photo from Burnhope ch8 on its last night of transmission.

It was gone the following morning though Pontop Pike Ch 5 continued for a few more hours.

Sorry for the poor quality- Kodak Instamatic 126 camera. I'd long lost the photo but recently found the negative. The set was a 23" Thorn 1400.

Focus Diode · 4th Jan 2019, 12:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambo1152

There was a serious standards converter issue here during the final months of 405 operation, the picture was unwatchable with heavy vertical striations.

The Network DVD of the surviving B&W episodes of "Callan" originate on 405-lines electronically converted to 625-lines.

Some of the episodes show this effect with thin black vertical lines on the image which Burnhope was often like close to the end.

Some of the episodes were converted to 625 in the early '70s.

Pine Marten · 4th Jan 2019, 12:14 am

I watched the final 30 or so minutes and the closedown announcement on BBC1 from Holme Moss, on a Perdio Portorama, on its whip aerial, in my bedroom in East Hull. The set was later carefully wrapped up and put in the attic. I now live within sight of Holme Moss (and Emley Moor for that matter). The set is still in my posession, in great condition physically, but never switched on since then! I wouldnt dare and I have no means of showing a picture anyway and buying or building a converter seems hardly worth it, as it would be just as a curio, not for regular viewing.Still have the original mains and battery leads too!

3rd Jan 2019, 12:00 pm	#1
alanmoore Tetrode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK. Posts: 74	Closure of 405 line service Just a thought ,that it was 34 years ago today that the BBC and ITV closed down their 405 line tv transmissions . Who would have thought in 1985 ,some of us in 2019,with the aid of an Aurora or other standards converter would still be watching and enjoying 405 line tv at the end of the second decade of the 21st century! Regards Alan.

3rd Jan 2019, 12:19 pm	#2
1100 man Octode Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Ventnor, Isle of Wight, & Great Dunmow, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,377	Re: Closure of 405 line service Coincidentally, I've just been reading the first issue of '405 Alive' from March '89. There is a good article in there about the closedown and the sequence in which the different regions ceased transmission. In fact, I'd forgotten just how good '405 Alive' was as a magazine and it's great that all the issues are now available on the BVWS website (you don't need to be a member to access them). Definitely well worth re- reading. It's great that modern technology (and the dedication of the people that designed & built it) has allowed us to have the Aurora for very little money thus making 405 TV's actually usable again to watch programmes. Standards converters were a real problem back in 1989! All the best Nick

3rd Jan 2019, 12:24 pm	#3
peter_scott Dekatron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 3,274	Re: Closure of 405 line service I had read that the service would be switched off after the Queen's Christmas message in December 1984 and was all ready to take photos of the final moments. I was most disappointed when it continued on and I wasn't around when the actual switch off took place. Peter Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk https://www.youtube.com/c/PeterScott/videos

3rd Jan 2019, 12:35 pm	#4
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: Closure of 405 line service We had already changed to UHF from Crystal Palace when we lived in Kent, but when we moved to the West Country in 1970 we were back on 405 again for a couple of years from Stockland Hill. Peter

3rd Jan 2019, 12:44 pm	#5
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,831	Re: Closure of 405 line service The devils turned the power down from Sutton Coldfield well before the end date. I know this because I had a massive four element yagi that used to provide massive signal strength to my sets. Over time this high signal level mysteriously reduced. At great time and trouble I ended up putting it outside on the roof and still the signal was very poor. It was all an attempt to make people drop their old sets I reckon. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

3rd Jan 2019, 1:28 pm	#6
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,495	Re: Closure of 405 line service I rather enjoyed watching the BBC TV news that announced that 405 line TV had closed down - on a 405 line set picking up the channel B1 signal from Llandrindod Wells. A little later I actually bought a 625-405 standards converter from the BBC (it came from Wenvoe). I had it for a few years but found it was almost impossible to keep it working properly so it went and was replaced by a Pineapple. A slight change in size and weight !! Yes, both Sutton and Wenvoe were running on greatly reduced power at the end as I also had been receiving them - even successfully recording using a modified 405 line TV chassis to provide the sound and vision into a standard Panasonic VHS recorder.

3rd Jan 2019, 1:50 pm	#7
Richard_FM Nonode Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK. Posts: 2,002	Re: Closure of 405 line service I read somewhere that Sutton Coldfield developed problems in it's later years & it wasn't considered to be worth fixing, is there any truth to that story? __________________ Hello IT: Have you Tried Turning It Off & On Again?

3rd Jan 2019, 1:59 pm	#8
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Closure of 405 line service Sutton Coldfield? Didn't the main transmitter fail and the standby TX was pressed into service. An STC CG1 I believe. In the North-East of England the BBC Pontop Pike transmitter was still delivering good quality pictures right up to the day of the 405 line closedown. DFWB.

3rd Jan 2019, 2:32 pm	#10
Brigham Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Co. Durham, UK. Posts: 1,117	Re: Closure of 405 line service There weren't many of us left at the end. Ch5 (Pontop Pike) ran with the sound off for three days, before anyone noticed.

3rd Jan 2019, 4:33 pm	#11
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,831	Re: Closure of 405 line service Thanks guys for clearing up my 'SC 405 line problem'. I was sure it wasn't my sets or my aerial. But hey ho, it's history now, and I have no more 405 line sets except for one almost pristine TV22a that has been patiently awaiting restoration for over 30 years. I need one of those round tuits. One day for sure.. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

3rd Jan 2019, 6:17 pm	#12
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: Closure of 405 line service I used my workshop Puratone 405 set right up to the end, the set was 28 years old and still working well. Sadly it ended up being robbed of it's valves & speaker and taken to the tip. I remember seeing quite a few 405 sets piled up at the tip, it seems that a few people still used them as second/bedroom sets right up to closedown. I never thought at the time that they could ever be used again, or I would have collected a few when they were worthless! Mark

3rd Jan 2019, 9:22 pm	#16
Graham G3ZVT Dekatron Join Date: May 2010 Location: Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 18,715	Re: Closure of 405 line service There was a serious standards converter issue here during the final months of 405 operation, the picture was unwatchable with heavy vertical striations. Unfortunately I can't now remember which service. It was either BBC from Holme Moss or ITV from Winter Hill I suppose it could have been BBC on channel 12 from WH but like most people round here we never bothered to upgrade the Band III aerial to a wideband one, and managed with the potent signal intended for Yorkshire. __________________ -- Graham. G3ZVT

3rd Jan 2019, 11:53 pm	#18
Focus Diode Octode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Borough of Gateshead, UK. Posts: 1,420	Re: Closure of 405 line service I took this off screen photo from Burnhope ch8 on its last night of transmission. It was gone the following morning though Pontop Pike Ch 5 continued for a few more hours. Sorry for the poor quality- Kodak Instamatic 126 camera. I'd long lost the photo but recently found the negative. The set was a 23" Thorn 1400. Attached Thumbnails

4th Jan 2019, 12:14 am	#20
Pine Marten Tetrode Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 50	Re: Closure of 405 line service I watched the final 30 or so minutes and the closedown announcement on BBC1 from Holme Moss, on a Perdio Portorama, on its whip aerial, in my bedroom in East Hull. The set was later carefully wrapped up and put in the attic. I now live within sight of Holme Moss (and Emley Moor for that matter). The set is still in my posession, in great condition physically, but never switched on since then! I wouldnt dare and I have no means of showing a picture anyway and buying or building a converter seems hardly worth it, as it would be just as a curio, not for regular viewing.Still have the original mains and battery leads too!