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Old 14th Mar 2019, 6:07 pm   #1
YoungManGW
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Default Green Ekco AD65

The holy grail - very nearly.

Photographs have appeared on this forum before of the superb thermoset reproductions of Ekco AD65s and A22s made by forum member Deleyeme7777.

Having acquired one of his 'onyx' green AD65s, I thought that folk might like to see some details of the cabinet:

www.ymgw.blogspot.com

The colour, finish, density, swirling and shine are all absolutely correct. A remarkable piece of work.

Regards,
Richard
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 7:42 pm   #2
stevehertz
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

I'm a bit perplexed how some repros are referred to as "fakes" while "The very best reproductions (are those) made by Graham Rowe, in Brisbane, Australia", seemingly, are not?

"Using moulds taken from genuine sets, the cabinets are made from a thermoset polymer, a compound of stone, plaster, resin and acrylic. The fakes can be melted, whilst Rowe's cabinets are irreversibly hardened, under heat and pressure. To date, he has made five AD65s - two onyx green, one swirled red, and two ivory - and four A22s - two red and two onyx green."

Anyway, for sure they are very nice, I'm just not so hot on the kind of 'right and wrong' innuendo introduced here. Surely they are all reproductions, aka, fakes?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 7:51 pm   #3
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

A reproduction is exactly that, a reproduction.
A fake is a reproduction which someone is trying to pass as the real thing.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 7:53 pm   #4
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Anyway, for sure they are very nice, I'm just not so hot on the kind of 'right and wrong' innuendo introduced here. Surely they are all reproductions, aka, fakes?
I'm with you on that. The whole point of collecting/enjoying having vintage radios, is that they are old and it is a pleasure to listen them and have them working.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 8:03 pm   #5
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

With respect that's not my point, I don't mind repros at all. I just don't see the point in referring to some of them as fakes, and others - the better ones (?) - by inference, to not be fakes. 'Repros' is the nice word, 'fakes' is the less nice word, but as a matter of fact, a reproduction is also a fake, a copy.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:26 pm   #6
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Ooh.... a nice little discussion about semantics. Could get interestingly heated- I wonder what its warm up time will be?


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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

You probably remember the threads from a number of years back Herald when there were "discussions" about whether original colour versions of these sets had ever existed and then a green one was reputed to have sold for an enormous amount. Then both the sale and the provenance were disputed as well.

It went on and on for a long time. At least the Gerry Wells "tribute" reproductions were wooden! Done, I suggest in the manner that he previously knocked out his own amplifiers and TV's. I thought it was nicely ironic that [apparently] sets like the AD65 were made in bakelite due to a wood shortage in the first place and Gerry reversed that

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Old 14th Mar 2019, 11:17 pm   #8
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

I think of the issue in Venn diagram terms. All fakes are reproductions. But not all reproductions are fakes. The distinction is precisely the one that Richard makes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
A reproduction is exactly that, a reproduction.
A fake is a reproduction which someone is trying to pass as the real thing.
It is perhaps ironic that Australia, from where Deleyeme7777's fantastic reproduction originates, is precisely where a number of fakes (i.e. reproductions passed off as the real thing) have ended up.

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Richard
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:22 am   #9
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Certainly looks nice from the few close ups! Got any photos of the whole thing?

I wanted to try and make a cabinet for an A22, since I have a chassis knocking about in storage, and I have a perfect complete A22 which I could try to make a mould from. One day, when I have time and money, I’ll have a go! Probably won’t be anywhere near as nice as your AD65 cabinet though...

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:26 am   #10
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Lloyd,
I'll try and post a couple tomorrow, when I've got some light.
Regards,
Richard
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 5:05 am   #11
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

I would suggest that as they are not passed off as genuine, that they are actually full scale models and model making is a legitimate pastime.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 8:56 am   #12
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Beautiful as well as useful, as Wells Coates no doubt intended (whether or not he had any say in producing a green version!). Fakery surely only begins when there's an attempt to deceive, whether it's to inflate a selling price or the owner's prestige, and has nothing to do with the quality or accuracy of the reproduced artefact.

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 9:28 am   #13
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

I agree, a reproduction is only a fake if fraudulently passed off as the real thing. If it's money then in most cases a reproduction is criminal, counterfeit.
Often reproductions of products in production are called counterfeits, in fact they are fakes and also contravene copyright and sometimes registered design (USA = Design Patent). A reproduction of something not out of copyright would be a violation if you even gave it away. It can be a copyright violation it you don't validly own one, backup copies are permitted in many countries. Not sure how that applies to a radio still covered by copyright.

It's a gorgeous reproduction.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 9:40 am   #14
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Not a great snap Lloyd, sun absent this morning, but here you go.

By way of contrast, I attach also a snap of the fakes, i.e. reproductions that were sold/bought as genuine, to which I referred. This is an extract from a larger photograph, so the image quality is terrible, but even so it's easy to see that these bright colours are modern plastics of a type for injection moulding. My understanding is that they were made in India, but am happy to be corrected. (The black one's likely genuine, but I didn't want to crop out the baby bath blue one.)

Regards,
Richard
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:08 am   #15
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

That is nice! I can see why people like the different colours, especially when you have a large collection of Bakelite radios, all in the usual brown ‘walnut’ finish, a bit of colour to break up the sea of brown is most welcome!

The AD65 is one of 2 round Ekco’s that I have yet to find, my A22 and AD75 are the only 2 that I bought as good condition sets, although the A22 has a crack in the dial. I also have 2 AC76’s, which were both bought as damaged, the black one looked like it had been kicked where the 3 controls are, and that took a fair bit of repairing! The brown one has a crack at the 2 o clock position that runs front to back, and the bar across the speaker is missing.

The fake A22 in the green I think is too green! I much prefer the lighter pastel shade of your AD65.

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:44 am   #16
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Yes, I'm immensely pleased with it Lloyd.

As you say, the fake green A22, in the second image, is just too Kermit.

Much nonsense has been written about the colour Ekcos, largely through untested repetition of what others have said. There is very limited source material relating to genuine colour (i.e. non-walnut/black) Ekcos. But there is some. Highly intriguing is this photograph of an Ekco display.

On the extreme left is an AC85, in ivory. One of these definitely exists.

Right of that is an AD65, possibly in red, judging by the tone, but could be green. As far as I know, there are extant three genuine colour AD65s - two onyx green, and one ivory.

On the right is a most unusual AC77. These are known in walnut, and in a black (outer) and ivory (inner) combination. That depicted, though, has the darker colour to the inner, and the outer colour appears darker than the ivory of the AC85 and AC86. Of, course, it might have had no life beyond the display. I'm certainly unaware of it being extant.

On the far right is an AC86, in ivory. I have never seen one.

To the left of that is an AD36, seemingly in the same colour as the AD65, so possibly red. I have never seen a genuine colour AD36.

"And for those of you watching in black and white ..."

Regards,
Richard
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:11 am   #17
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Next up, evidence of the availability of special order colours for the RS3, the cabinet of which was reused in the SH25, to the left; and the RS2, the adapted cabinet of which was reused in the M23, to the right.

Difficult to judge the colours, but one could hazard at green and ivory. I'm not aware that any such are extant.

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:33 am   #18
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Finally, this image from the British Industries Fair, Birmingham, 1935.

Colour options shown for AD36, AD65, AC76 and AC85. Very difficult to determine the colours.

Regards,
Richard
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 2:49 pm   #19
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Those photos are fantastic, if only they were in colour! I never knew the RS3 had been done in different colours, I was lucky enough to get my hands on an RS3 last year, just a brown one though! I sure I have seen an Ivory AC85 somewhere, probably in a book! Sad thing is those cabinets were one off’s for trade shows, put on display in Ekco’s factory for a few years then chucked out when things got re-vamped. It would be great if some were squirrelled away, waiting to be discovered in someone’s attic.

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 6:09 pm   #20
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Default Re: Green Ekco AD65

Bear in mind that what manufacturers exhibited at shows were often just that, 'show models', and were not always available to order afterwards. It was a way of bringing attention to the stand, getting the customers in, getting them talking. The literature does of course indicate that such models were made, but unfortunately it does not prove their general availability and of course whether or not of those odd few made if any exist now.

Apologies to Lloyd, just spotted his post of which mine largely echoes.. ha ha.. ha.
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