Akai 4000DS

[Ingenium]

Hi - I have an old machine not used for many years that I wish to re-invent. The machine rewinds but when set to e Forward there is no movement. i am assumming this is due to lack of lubrication.Can any body advise of simple maintenance procedures.

Ian

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Ingenium

i am assumming this is due to lack of lubrication.
Ian

Unlikely. Generally, a worn / broken rubber belt causes this sort of trouble, or - if my memory serves me correctly - a slipping / worn rubber wheel / clutch on the 4000DS. As for maintenance, ISTR that removing 4 screws at the back and removing all the knobs at the front plus the cover over the tape heads is required to get the innards out of the wooden case. At that point, with the two flat, long, rectangular knobs back on and a tape installed, powering up should take you quite some way to seeing just what isn't rotating or is slipping.

Best of luck!

Al.

[Ingenium]

I have established that the problem with my Akai 4000DS is a shattered Cam casting on the Forward/record control. Does anyone if I can obtain this part from anywhere.

Ian

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Ingenium

I have established that the problem with my Akai 4000DS is a shattered Cam casting on the Forward/record control.
Ian

Ouch! Short of making something yourself out of raw metal - brass or copper, for example - and I appreciate that without a pattern, that is quite a challenge - regret I can't help you with that one!

Again, best of luck 'though.

Al.

[TIMTAPE]

I read your initial message and thought to myself it's probably that dastardly cam made from that cheap grey metal. It's a common problem with this transport which runs through a whole line of Akai reel to reels. In the past, if I got it early enough, I've filled the emerging cracks on the casting with super glue, hoping to prolong its life. Old sticking grease puts undue pressure on the casting too as it is forced to withstand more force than it was probably designed for.

There must be a dollar in it for someone to make a new casting of an intact cam and make new ones out of better material. There must be thousands of these two lever Akai transports rendered otherwise useless by these pesky cams shattering.
Any thoughts from anyone else on this?
Tim

[reelguy]

I have often heard other people complaining of this problem on certain Akai M/cs but havent seen it myself. {Fingers crossed it doesn't happen to
me now }.
I have a GX 4000DS so I will have to have a look at the cam you have
mentioned in case it also is on the way out.
I dont know if anyone has affected a repair for this problem.
It will be interesting if someone can suggest a remedy..
Regards Peter W Reelguy

[Ingenium]

Thanks for the info- I am now not sure whether to buy a donor machine that probabley will have the same problem or look to a completely different 4 track machine.

Being a mechanical engineer I will draw the component and obtain costs for milling replicas in brass as I believe the material should have some maleability due to its interface. I estimate that to set up a machine and run a batch of say 100 it would cost C. £30 -£50 a piece. Does anyone think this is a realistic price for such a machine?

Regards

Ian

[Top Cap]

Hi Ian, I had two 4000D machines and both appeared to have good cams. I saw a posting from an American guy who had the same problem as you and I donated my spare cam to him. That was years ago and now I notice that the cam on this machine is looking slightly ill - damn monkey metal!
I would certainly consider buying a cam if you had any produced, even if my machine does not need it yet, I think it will do so in the long term future.
I think a lot of problems with this casting material lies in temperature as those I have talked to about this problem all admit to storing the machine in a very cold place at some time, but then I am no metallurgist
Cheers
Les

[reelguy]

Hello Ian and others,
I have just had a look at the cams on the following m/cs Akai 4000DS, Akai 4000DB, GX 150D and they seem ok . I am assuming you mean the cam inside the triangular plates with the small arm on it. And not the cam on top.?
I would be surprised if anyone would be prepared to spend £30 or £50 on this spare part.Especially as the M/c would maybe need new belts etc.
Plus cost of fitting if owner cannot do it themselves.
Its only a personal opinion of course but I dont think these Akais are particularly good machines and worth the expense. A little basic even.
You do see requests for parts for various Akais but not as many as a hundred !. And the part that is usually wanted is the speed change pillar which easily gets lost. However ,If someone had a few spare parts they would come in handy . Regards Peter W Reelguy
PS, Remember its only my personal opinion and it will interesting to hear what others have to say.

[Roger13]

Originally Posted by reelguy

Hello Ian and others,
I have just had a look at the cams on the following m/cs Akai 4000DS, Akai 4000DB, GX 150D and they seem ok . I am assuming you mean the cam inside the triangular plates with the small arm on it. And not the cam on top.?
I would be surprised if anyone would be prepared to spend £30 or £50 on this spare part.Especially as the M/c would maybe need new belts etc.
Plus cost of fitting if owner cannot do it themselves.
Its only a personal opinion of course but I dont think these Akais are particularly good machines and worth the expense. A little basic even.
You do see requests for parts for various Akais but not as many as a hundred !. And the part that is usually wanted is the speed change pillar which easily gets lost. However ,If someone had a few spare parts they would come in handy . Regards Peter W Reelguy
PS, Remember its only my personal opinion and it will interesting to hear what others have to say.

Hi all.

Worth mentioning in order to avoid confusion, that this cam actually only operates the 'Record' function and appears to have no effect on playback. I have just bought a 4000D with the same problem and am about to attempt manufacturer of a new part from aluminium. If it succeeds I shall take a cast and investigate the possibility of moulding some new ones. If successful I will make these available for peanuts to fellow sufferers.

As an aside, I have long had the feeling that the 4000D (my first serious recorder) was in fact sonically superior to it's successor, the 4000DS, and initial comparisons with my own 4000DS would appear to support this*. It is certainly a much quieter transport. More when I've had a chance to compare them properly, and I'll post the results of the manufacturing project.

* Just my personal opinion of course!

[dave walsh]

Roger my 4000 is ok- at present- but I'm now getting nervous!
If your [I presume] cheaper ally casting was a success it looks like you would be in a position to bring joy to a large section of humanity. This would include of us in the same location ie myself and peter [realguy]. Keep us all posted. Dave

[Roger13]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

Roger my 4000 is ok- at present- but I'm now getting nervous!
If your [I presume] cheaper ally casting was a success it looks like you would be in a position to bring joy to a large section of humanity. This would include of us in the same location ie myself and peter [realguy]. Keep us all posted. Dave

Hi Dave.

The problem as I see it is not the manufacture of a replacement but the duplication of it. That's why I shall be looking hard at the possibility of casting/moulding them. Making the original will be time consuming and delicate and this wouldn't be practical on any scale. Well, not from my spare room anyway! The problem of course is coming up with a material that's easy to mould/cast but hardwearing enough to do the job. Do like a challenge though...

[dave walsh]

I suspect that you are up to the task! I've just lost a perfectly good electric saw due to the failure of a grey metal casting as per the Akai. It's almost as if these things have been designed to fail! I once replaced a water hose coupling on a car engine with one from an earlier model-isuspiciously it was twice the size and durability. dave

[Roger13]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

I suspect that you are up to the task! I've just lost a perfectly good electric saw due to the failure of a grey metal casting as per the Akai. It's almost as if these things have been designed to fail! I once replaced a water hose coupling on a car engine with one from an earlier model-isuspiciously it was twice the size and durability. dave

Dave,

The build of the machine is otherwise neat, tidy and efficient. Then they use tuppence worth of inferior metal in a vital role.

I suspect that your own suspicions are not far from the truth.

[Ingenium]

I decided to initiate a make shift repair in order to get the machine to work so that I could transfer my tapes to another machine. For info it is the top cam that went that articulates the pinch wheel to the capstan and engages the RH Spool wheel. I removed the shattered cam and made a temporary out of wood- my Dad was a carpenter-this allows me to play tapes albeit with the face exposed and not to be recommended.

Next problem-the Tascam BR-20 that I just bought off e-bay is not seeing any signal on channel 2.being a 2 track machine I obviousely cannot use my 4 track tapes.

Does anyone know an engineer that will understand the Tascam as well as being cost effective. I am based in Essex.......

Ian

[Nickthedentist]

I wonder whether polymethylmethacrylate denture acrylic (pretty tough and wear-resistant though quite brittle) could be used to make a replica?

If so, a friendly denture technician [sorry, I don't know one] might be persuaded to have a go at copying an original (they can do this with dentures with some degree of precision).

Nick.

[reelguy]

Hello All .
Does anyone have a pic of the cam that is causig the problem ?
As I mentioned in an earlier message,I have had a look inside other
Akai's and took some pics of the cam but not very easy to see as it is
buried in the mechanism . I dont fancy dismantling a m/c just so I
can look at the cam.

I see someone else has started a new thread due to the same problem.
I did hope he would be redirected to this thread .

Roger 13, I was surprised to see you mention that the 4000D was
sonically ? better than the 4000DS . I would have thought they would
sound the same.l
Anyway, It will be good to see someone come up with a solution to
the problem of the cam.
I have a Sharp RtR with pitting on an aluminium capstan so it must be
funny metal they used to use in Japan.Anyway thats for another
thread .
Peter W Reelguy

[reelguy]

Sorry Roger13,
I wrote my previous comment about coming to this thread and have
now realised it was you. I must be getting confudes . It must be my age ....
Peter W Reelguy

[DOFFERY]

Originally Posted by reelguy

Hello All .
Does anyone have a pic of the cam that is causig the problem ?
As I mentioned in an earlier message,I have had a look inside other
Akai's and took some pics of the cam but not very easy to see as it is
buried in the mechanism . I dont fancy dismantling a m/c just so I
can look at the cam.

I see someone else has started a new thread due to the same problem.
I did hope he would be redirected to this thread .

Roger 13, I was surprised to see you mention that the 4000D was
sonically ? better than the 4000DS . I would have thought they would
sound the same.l
Anyway, It will be good to see someone come up with a solution to
the problem of the cam.
I have a Sharp RtR with pitting on an aluminium capstan so it must be
funny metal they used to use in Japan.Anyway thats for another
thread .
Peter W Reelguy

PM for you Peter, Doffery

[Roger13]

Originally Posted by reelguy

Roger 13, I was surprised to see you mention that the 4000D was
sonically ? better than the 4000DS . I would have thought they would
sound the same.l
Anyway, It will be good to see someone come up with a solution to
the problem of the cam.
I have a Sharp RtR with pitting on an aluminium capstan so it must be
funny metal they used to use in Japan.Anyway thats for another
thread .
Peter W Reelguy

Hi Peter.

The comment about the 'sonic superiority' of the 4000D was purely subjective. Bear in mind that the 4000D was my first serious recorder (bought new on Tottenham Court Road and lugged under my arm on the tube) and I was really blown away by it. I passed it on in favour of cassette technology (yes I know ) and it was some years before I acquired a 4000DS, which didn't make the same startling impression. On arrival of my recently purchased 4000D I was again immediately impressed by it's clarity and quietness. However, until I have both fully working I won't be able to do a proper A/B comparison. I can say though that I have to put my ear very close to the 4000D in order to hear the mechanics, but the 4000DS's hissing noise is audible without too much effort....

I shall shortly be in a position to photograph a complete example of the offending cam but I have yet to figure out how to add a photo to these listings (why does it ask for a URL?) so I'll need your email address so that I can let you see it.

Cheers, Roger.