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Old 14th Apr 2013, 4:24 pm   #1
Geologytom
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Default Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Afternoon All,

About 5 years ago I picked up an old telephone at a junk stall at a car boot for about £15...it has sadly taken me this long to get it into a half decent state because, as could be expected "you just can't get the parts"! It's only identifying marks is a long code 132678, and 135 stamped on both cabinet and door. The telephone that matches closest to what I think is the original features is the Peel Conner Shortphone, but it seems an earlier design.

I have reached a stage where things are coming together a little more, and was looking for advice on various parts of the phone, as well as to share a few photos of something I think is interesting (maybe I am alone on this one!) I mostly have just worked on GPO phones, valve radios and steam engines until this project!

The restoration started initially with a careful strip down and conventional clean up, followed by getting the case French polished. I had little luck initially with parts, and there were a few major issues, the conducting hinges were totally broken, the magneto handle snapped (and obviously at an early stage as it had been repaired in service) and the induction coil partly unwound.

Since this I have found a donor phone which I am 100% sure was a very mangled Peel Conner "shortphone", and shared many similar components, but had interesting differences. The hinges were more robust, and the receiver was not a watch type. http://www.britishtelephones.com/gec/peelshort

So, some speculation on the origins of the phone! Inside the pre-Bakelite watch receiver it reads I.R.G.P&T.W Co Ltd 1906 (India Rubber and Gutta Percha & Telegraph Works). If this is an original part, it perhaps dates the phone. The steel case of the receiver does have GPO C07 stamped on the back, perhaps it was later adopted?

It does not have a true Hunningscone, there is now a carbon granule type insert which seems designed to fit, and works reasonably. The mouth piece is missing sadly, and I have never been able to find one.

The backboard is not original, but seems a good replacement. Thank you eBay!

I made a new magneto handle from scratch to as closely replace the stub, which was much more attractive than the simpler (but probably stronger!) later/different versions.

So now my questions...

- Initially, can anyone offer advice on conversion? The induction coil is likely totally knackered, but the rest of the components seem in good working condition. I have included a circuit diagram - though apologies for its quality, it was 10 years ago I did GCSE electronics! I had planned to use a GPO746 circuit board placed in the battery box below as I wish to keep the telephone in it's original state electrically, and not butcher it!

-Does anyone have any idea where I could source a mouthpiece for the Hunningscone? I think they must have been rather delicate and much abused as I have not seen another phone with one.

-Any discussions on identity would be MOST welcome, I would love to nail down the origins!

I look forward to your responses!

Cheers,

Tom
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Old 14th Apr 2013, 8:15 pm   #2
jjwayle
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

WOW! Wish i could find things like that at a boot sale for my phone collection! Lovely job there!

Telephone Lines in Devon maybe able to help with spares for the phone. Conversion could be a bit tricky. These phones were meant for magneto exchanges or point to point comms and the mic is powered from a local battery which both make it tricky to work on modern systems without a lot of hassle and prob as you say the use of a 746 board, then of course you would only get incoming calls. Why not try and find another magneto phone and have an upstairs/downstairs or shed/house intercom!?

I'm not sure the diagram is 100% right, normally when the receiver is on hook the bell is in line ready for a call to come in. Sometimes winding the handle will ring the bells on the phone youre using as well as the exchange or called line. L1 and L2 are the connections to exchange or other phone. The terminals B and B are for another bell for the phone, if this is not used then its usually strapped. C and Z are carbon and zinc, connections for the older type of battery. T perhaps could be transmitter?

Hope thats a start at least. I'm no expert, just another young telephone collector lol!

Jason
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Old 14th Apr 2013, 11:35 pm   #3
Geologytom
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Hi Jason, thanks for the comments, very useful.

I think I am suffering from a damaged receiver switch, the springs seem to be incorrectly set, which I am looking into. This probably means the switches are set wrong in the diagram, as you suggest.

I think you are correct on your connection advice, I have tested strapping B and B', and the bells do operate when cranking the handle.

I may simply wire it up through the 746 board to just take incoming calls, I doubt the Fleet exchange would appreciate random incoming line currents from the magneto!

As a final note, the mic will transmit to a GPO704B linesmans, which hopefully means there should not be too many problems later on.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Tom
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Old 15th Apr 2013, 12:14 am   #4
jjwayle
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Hi Tom,
Malcolm from Telephone Lines would be the guy def to ask fro help re the switch and spring although from your restoration work so far you probably can fashion something im sure from bits lying about or from a good DIY store.

Great news that the magneto is clearly working and the bells are too. Check what the coils read, they may not be 1000 ohms, some were 2000 i think or odd numbers depending on use. Fitting a suitable resistor if you connect it to a 746 type board would then be required.

Interesting the mic works from a line tester! Maybe someone had started to convert it and given up? Usually with magneto/LB phones the mic is run from a 3 volt supply locally and thats cut off when on hook.

Haha no you dont want to be sending a good 75 volts down the line, they dont like it up em! You could always disconnect the magneto and fit inside one of the small chinese bells like in the BT Tribune phones etc.

Good luck, keep us in the loop with all your progress!
Jason
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Old 15th Apr 2013, 12:20 pm   #5
dagskarlsen
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Since the coil is defect, just let it be there, and find yourselves a coil from about any German telephone between 1928 and 1975 they are so equal, and easy to use. (The W48 diagram: http://tinyurl.com/c89u44c )
Ad a capacitor in series with the ringer.
It may be an idea just to short the generator to limit the risk of sending out ringing current.

dsk

Edit: The coil may still be ok, then you just have to change a little on the configuration, and no need for anything else new than a capacitor, or two.

It should be 2 separate windings, one extremely lo ohm this may look like shorted, the other one of maybe 20-70 ohms.

Could you please disconnect the wires and measure.

dsk
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 9:12 pm   #6
Geologytom
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Jason,

Cheers for the feedback. The bell coils are 100 ohms each, pretty low, but as discussed, easy enough to add a resister. The mic is probably an in service retrofit to bring it up to a more modern (prob 20's/30's!) spec, as the other phone does retain part of it's Hunngingscone, and that is a very different beast (see attached diagram)!

Dsk,

Thanks for the suggestions, sadly I think someone has been messing with the coil, it just reads open circuit, I think someone must have decided to investigate it once, destructively!

I will have a fiddle at the weekend, and get on with the French polishing, Thanks for the advice!

Tom
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Old 28th May 2014, 10:15 pm   #7
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Evening All,

Although its been a little while since I posted on here, I thought I would just share my recent work on this phone.

I have enclosed a PDF of the new circuit diagram. I was able to modify the phone to utilise a 700 series style circuit by changing the defunct coil for one taken from a 746, and hiding it inside the old one, adding the old input wires for authenticity. I also built the ASTIC using the same 746 board components and store them in a large junction box inside the battery box, with the wires running behind the backboard. This means that no modern components can be seen inside or outside the phone, and the wiring is still largely the same.

Let me know your thoughts on the setup, I'm only a novice. Dsk helped spur a lot of my changes, thanks. The only problem I have is that without the cap in the bell circuit the exchange thinks i'm permanently off hook, and with one the bell won't ring...Any suggestions?

Thanks.
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Old 29th May 2014, 7:35 am   #8
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologytom View Post
The only problem I have is that without the cap in the bell circuit the exchange thinks i'm permanently off hook, and with one the bell won't ring...Any suggestions?
What value of capacitor?

Also, I'm a little puzzled by the comment on your diagram that on-hook switch is disabled. How, then, do you make and break the line loop?
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Old 29th May 2014, 9:18 pm   #9
dagskarlsen
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologytom View Post
Let me know your thoughts on the setup, I'm only a novice. Dsk helped spur a lot of my changes, thanks. The only problem I have is that without the cap in the bell circuit the exchange thinks i'm permanently off hook, and with one the bell won't ring...Any suggestions?
Sometimes, things take time... The old ringer-motor may may be needing a little more juice My guess are about 1000 ohms dc resistance of the ringer, and originally no resistor, an maybe a 1-2 uF capacitor. This will draw about 2-4 ringer equivalents. The resistor helps on the power consumption, but steals power. Depending on what else on the line you may increase the load of this phone. We will never agree in this forum about right and wrong, so I know some out there dislike this suggestion: Remove the resistor, and try with a capacitor of 0,47 uf, if needed increase to 1 uF. And of-course you should try to adjust the clapper to move freely, and not very much. It shall not rest on the gong, but hit it by flexing when the hammer are moved.

You may have to unplug other phones to get enough to ring this one.

dsk
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Old 29th May 2014, 9:57 pm   #10
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

I am unfamiliar with telephones of this vintage, so please forgive what is probably a silly question:
Why the 'conductive' hinges, rather than simple hard wiring? For that matter, why is the 'door' (probably the wrong word) made to be opened so readily?
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Old 30th May 2014, 11:30 am   #11
Geologytom
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Dave, It's a 0.047uF. It's only the third leaf of the switch that I have disabled, to use that circuit for the ASTIC, otherwise I needed to have modern wires inside to take the connection from the coil to the bottom of the phone.

Dsk, the ringer is 100ohms per side so 200 overall. I have reset it all with feeler gauges and it will ring beautifully using my 704B linesmans and a 3.86K resistor, as well as directly from the magneto. I think it would ring on the network without the cap but as noted it doesn't think I'm putting the receiver down. I have a Trimphone in the house and I realise they are probably not going to get on!! This had no capacitor (condenser!) in the setup originally and certainly no resister.

dseymo1,

Indeed one does wonder! They are very proud of their conductive hinges (it's mentioned in the catalogue!). Oddly none of the internal wires are insulated, except the coil tags, and are stapled gently down in very clean and angular fashion. I don't know why they needed to be opened frequently by the user, this one has a "machine key" ie a screw holding it shut, but other later GEC types (Peel Conner really is just a GEC brand) have actual keys on the front.

An image of the inside originally.
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Old 30th May 2014, 12:24 pm   #12
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

From my limited experience, 0.047µF does sound very low. It doesn't surprise me that it is passing insufficient current to drive the bell motor. The capacitor in a modern UK master socket is 1.8µF, though (as said above) a lower value should lower the REN.

Start with, say, 0.47µF and see whether that drives the bell OK. If it doesn't, experiment with gradually increasing values up to 1.8µF, bearing in mind that the REN will increase with the capacitor value. If 0.47µF does ring successfully, it might be interesting to experiment with progressively lower values until it fails to ring properly.

Your comment about being permanently off-hook with the bell direct across the line with no capacitor is also to be expected. Without a capacitor, the DC line current will happily pass through the bell coils, causing the exchange to see a loop made (off-hook condition).
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Old 30th May 2014, 1:35 pm   #13
Geologytom
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Dave, you are right about the cap being too low, I must admit when I installed it I thought it was 0.47uF! I blame small writing and lack of attention to detail! I have taken a 1.8uf and a 0.9uF from a 746 board and tried these, both ring well but the 0.9uF perhaps a little less. This is without the resistor. Adding it doesn't seem to change much, I can still hear my Trimphone chirruping away upstairs in all cases. I may go and find some lower caps to test what the limit is. Would you recommend having the resistor in? I know dsk suggests removing it.
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Old 30th May 2014, 2:10 pm   #14
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Default Re: Peel Conner "Shortphone"? Restoration Project

Oh, the resistor! As you may have gathered, this is a contentious subject. Given that you state that including the resistor doesn't make a significant difference to the ringing, it certainly isn't going to do any harm. My personal take on it is to go with a 1.8µF capacitor and a 3.3kΩ resistor. If it works successfully and so does your trimphone (also considered to be something of a REN grabber itself), then stick with it.
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