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Old 9th Feb 2011, 11:56 am   #21
woodchips
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Default Re: Old Solder New Solder

Hello, do a search for "lead free solder project summary". This is a report from the US department for defense, so probably quite believable.

My copy is a draft dated 2006, but a quick search turned up later editions.

Without rereading it all, the summary is that contamination is serious, just using a lead solder tip with lead free solder will contaiminate it enough to be a future failure.

Lead free solder is basically rubbish, why do they make people make things with a guaranteed failure mode in them?

Bob
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Old 9th Feb 2011, 12:46 pm   #22
Lucien Nunes
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I routinely work on equipment with both types of solder. My current situation is that I keep duplicate sets of iron bits and both types of solder on the bench and in the toolbox. Only in emergency would I rework joints with the 'wrong' solder, having experienced the issue with formation of unworkable alloys when mixing the two. The potential for component damage when applying the excessive heat required to correct a mixed joint, or even to work pure unleaded on a component not designed for it, justifies the extra effort.

When building equipment not covered by the RoHS directive, I prefer to use 60/40 unless there are incompatible parts that have already been processed with LF. It would seem sensible to keep LF out of vintage sets so long as 60/40 is available, which it probably will be for a very long time.

An interesting situation occurred regarding pipe organs in the runup to RoHS. Organs with electric action as opposed to mechanical (i.e. the part that operates the wind pallets in response the keys and stops) contain extensive electronic control systems, which naturally fall within RoHS, as does an electric blower. Because these are essential components and systems without which the organ cannot function, the entirety could be classed as a piece of electrically operated equipment, which would require RoHS compliance. Yet many of the pipes are made of lead alloys, totalling perhaps half a ton in a large church job.

There was a fear at one stage that electric action would have to be eliminated from new organs to prevent them falling within the scope of RoHS, however a derogation was made for all non-electric parts such as pipes and wind tubing. We now have the paradox that leaded solder is used to joint the pipes while lead-free solder is mandatory for jointing the wiring!

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Old 9th Feb 2011, 1:41 pm   #23
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Conversely, greetings cards which play a tune when you open them, can have their dinky little circuit boards soldered with leaded solder.

The reason? The electronic circuitry does not form an essential part of the product (you still get the spirit of the birthday wish even if the tune module does not work), so the card as a whole is not within the scope of WEEE/RoHS and therefore lead can be used in its manufacture.

Leaded solder is still obtainable, but as its use dwindles, prices may rise and some suppliers may decide not to stock it as a minor commodity. So it does make sense to stock up now.
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Old 9th Feb 2011, 5:05 pm   #24
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So, a product which is designed to be used once and then thrown away with the rubbish is permitted to contain lead, but a product which is expected to have a decent service life, and would be more reliable with it, isn't.

Madness!


Brian
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Old 9th Feb 2011, 6:51 pm   #25
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I prefer leaded solder, but when I have to use lead-free, I make sure it's the type with some silver content. I've had no problems with that. There are some types (even from reputable manufacturers) that are unusable rubbish.

I use a Weller Magnastat solder station with #7 tips and find that it's perfectly usable (from a temp. perspective) for both types.
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Old 11th Feb 2011, 12:58 pm   #26
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I am with you Kalee20. I have had a lot of jobs lately on power stuff and it was assembled using lead free. I find that I can add a little leaded solder to the joint to make the OEM solder flow more easily and then suck as much as possible of the old solder from the joint. I have found that the lead free tinning on the joint makes the leaded solder flow quite nicely to where it is needed. I do not like lead free solder. In Australia the legislation, as far as solder is concerned, has remained sane and we can still use the real stuff.
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Old 11th Feb 2011, 3:55 pm   #27
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I recently bought 2 500 gms of leaded solder as i am getting a bit low on it.

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I wonder if the reel might be worth something.

Andy
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Old 11th Feb 2011, 11:36 pm   #28
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Andy, that solder has a fantastic smell to it, I had some on a red plastic reel that I used all through the 90's, I think I have about 1 meter of it left, used purely for nostalgic purposes.

Dave.
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 1:02 am   #29
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So if I read this correctly cars boats and planes now being bought and used in Europe are literally death traps nor are these exempt from rohse. Someone has already posted that medical electronics are exempt i believe.

I still do not have a definitive answer backed up by science that lead free is a no no.... just opinion.

Maybe that is why there is so much opinion in that there is no definitive proof.

I thank kalee for his reponses if I read you correctly there is definite proof of potential problems but time will be the only final proof.

Mike
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 12:54 pm   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelR View Post
I thank kalee for his reponses if I read you correctly there is definite proof of potential problems but time will be the only final proof.
Exactly - in the meantime I'm using leaded for my own jobs. Easier, looks nicer, and hopefully won't enter landfill!
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 6:00 pm   #31
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Default Re: Old Solder New Solder

Incidentally we have been discussing solder what about rohse compliant components.

Have these components leads suited for lead free soldering if so what implications are there to using leaded solder

Mike
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 6:08 pm   #32
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The quantity of solder on tinned leads is tiny, I would think that it won't affect the tin/lead ratio by much, but it will be even more important to make sure the joint is flowed properly to mix the alloys.


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Old 12th Feb 2011, 6:52 pm   #33
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Quote:
I do _prefer_ leaded though as it requires less heat and makes nicer looking joints. WelshAnorak's point may be true for vintage transistor stuff but I always try to clip a heatsink on older transitor leads, which then promptly snaps off the leads at the transistor...
I was always told to file the teeth flat on the croc clips.

Fortunately I have enough leaded solder to last many years
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 7:27 pm   #34
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I think you will find that cars and other vehicles are exempt because they have a lead acid battery (well most of them) and the added lead will make b****er all difference. So a car radio can use leaded solder but one for a (push) bicycle can't.
 
Old 12th Feb 2011, 9:41 pm   #35
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Well after hundreds of years of using tin/lead alloy and flux can anyone tell me who has been made ill by this formula.
I must be the worst person alive what with dousing myself with old transformer oil, PCB's from caps sucking solder, exposure to X-Rays from lethal Philips G6 sets, scraping luminous clock hands etc, so what is all this about?
I wouldn't ever think about using or mixing modern lead free solder. I have found it rubbish, it doesn't bond properly, is prone to giving high resistance joints and it common to see many dry joints on sections that carry some current.

I have seen in industrial panels some surface mount components fall off due to poor "wetting" and giving poor bonding and also due to the same scenario horrendous burning due to high resistance joints.
I avoid it like the plague!
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 9:48 pm   #36
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I agree Trevor,same experience as you.On the subject ,does anyone remember that RadioSpares scented solder from the 60s?

David
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Old 12th Feb 2011, 9:56 pm   #37
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David.
Wonderful solder, smelt great and seemed to be absolutely loaded with flux!
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 5:32 pm   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
I think you will find that cars and other vehicles are exempt because they have a lead acid battery (well most of them) and the added lead will make b****er all difference. So a car radio can use leaded solder but one for a (push) bicycle can't.
No, unfortunately - batteries are exempt from RoHS, but not the whole car. That's why the batteries are recycled separately, so that hopefully they won't enter landfill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGmidsUK View Post
The quantity of solder on tinned leads is tiny, I would think that it won't affect the tin/lead ratio by much, but it will be even more important to make sure the joint is flowed properly to mix the alloys.
Unfortunately it does. If you use old components (with leads 'tinned' by leaded solder) and use lead-free solder to join them, you are asking for trouble.

Some companies threw out large amounts of non-lead-free components around the time the lead-free RoHS directive became 'live'.

The other way round, however, is fine. Most lead platings are compatible with leaded solder. (Although gold-plating is bad news, but not catastrophic).
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 5:59 pm   #39
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Default Re: Old Solder New Solder

As usual Thanks Kalee20.

I think it is worth mentioning also that there are components especially sourced in the states that are new and not ROHSE compliant

Mike

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Old 13th Feb 2011, 6:04 pm   #40
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Default Re: Old Solder New Solder

I just had my first experiance of new unleaded solder, it was not a pleasant experiance. Could not get the solder to run properly even using a new iron. In the end I switched back to my trusted old iron, removed the lead free stuff with de soldering braid and resoldered all the required connections using normal 60/40 solder.
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