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Old 31st Jan 2011, 2:19 pm   #1
twocvbloke
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Default Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

I managed to bag myself some new-in-box 5Amp BS546 sockets on ebay yesterday, and they're vintage ones, the proper surface-mount-on-the-skirting-board sort, so, the part yet to come is wiring them up to be useful...

I've fiddled with such sockets, in a local am-dram theatre's stores, mounted on what was probably an offcut piece of floorboard, and they were in a set of three, but these were positively ancient and used old rubber wire in the Black-Red-Green standard, so I didn't actually use them for safety reasons, but they were neat little things, I wish I purloined them before they cleared it all out...

So, should I do something similar and have them on the end of a 13Amp plug, or do something a bit more elaborate?

I wouldn't mind finding some 15A sockets of a similar vintage, but that's for a later date...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 3:40 pm   #2
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

They should really be run on their own radial circuits from 6 amp MCBs.

If you haven't room in your consumer unit (and almost nobody has!), then wire FCUs into your ring main, fit 5A fuses and use these to supply your BS546 sockets.

You can run any number of 5A sockets from one 5A fuse or 6A MCB, but obviously the amps available will be shared between them all. What you can't do is wire three 5A sockets to one 16A MCB; because in the event of a fault in any appliance, its flex would have to withstand more than 16 amps for as long as the breaker takes to open.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 3:57 pm   #3
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Hmm, well, the Fusebox in this house is positively ancient and has no spare slots, but I'm looking at some small consumers on ebay that I could lash up with appropriate MCBs fitted (I need to wire in a small consumer unit anyway to make the workshop wiring safe, as the twit who put it in didn't think to use anything to make sure it was safe), so I can sort that out easily methinks...

I suppose I should have said a 13a plug fitted with a 5a fuse, but the brain wasn't quite working then...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 3:58 pm   #4
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

If we think of when these were in common use there could be a number wired into a 30a fuse!
I don't advocate we should do that but 2.5mm cable should fit into the socket quite easily and then if you have 3 of them paralleled together a 16a MCB will be OK. Remember it is OK for one 13a socket to be a spur off a ring circuit so 3x 5a should also be OK.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:04 pm   #5
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

The difference is that 13a plugs have fuses in them, but 5A ones don't, so the only overcurrent protection is provided by the circuit fuse/MCB - which needs to be rated no higher than what the flex can take.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:05 pm   #6
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Although it's entirely possible to instal them as part of the permanent wiring I would recommend that you simply make up an extension lead with a 13A plug on one end and your 5A sockets on the other. Fuse the plug at 5A.

If you must fit them to the permanent wiring use an FCU with a 5A fuse.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:06 pm   #7
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Remember it is OK for one 13a socket to be a spur off a ring circuit so 3x 5a should also be OK.
Erm, I really need to sort out the workshop's wiring then, that's basically a spur with about 7 (possibly more) double sockets, unfused and had suffered from damp/roof leakage in the past so most actually don't work......

The worst bit is, the pillock who put it all in took the spur off a socket in my bedroom!!! I'm kind of worried now...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:24 pm   #8
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

If you fit a 13A fused spur you can run as many sockets as you like off it assuming sockets less than 13A are also fused. A swiched fused spur just outside the workshop is a good safety feature, you can turn the lot off when leaving as can someone else upon hearing your screams!
 
Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:27 pm   #9
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Or even better one of these.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FcomfAodBQpE5g
 
Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:35 pm   #10
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

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Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
The difference is that 13a plugs have fuses in them, but 5A ones don't, so the only overcurrent protection is provided by the circuit fuse/MCB - which needs to be rated no higher than what the flex can take.
Hi.
Even 1mm cable is rated at 10a, 1.5mm is rated at 13a
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:42 pm   #11
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

I think one of them things alone wouldn't be too happy with a washer and dryer going at the same time (the workshop doubles as the utility room, and when i do mine, they're both usually running at the same time)...

Anyway, kind of going off topic, should be talking about the 5 Amp sockets...

The seller actually had some more 5A sockets in a metal-clad setup, wish I bid on those too cos they went for just 99p, for 10 of the things...

So, to wire them up permanently, I need to run them on a radial circuit from a consumer unit and run them on a 6A RCD (Individually I presume?), but to use them as an extension-type setup, then I just attach them to a board and wire them to an appropriately fused 13A plug...

Well, I shall work that all out when I get them (will be after wednesday, still need to pay for them!!), but I'm pretty pleased I got them, I liked the old style small sockets, even the BS1363 versions...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:43 pm   #12
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Speaking of cables, I have some out in the workshop, haven't a clue what size they are, I think I'll go take a look now...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:54 pm   #13
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Well, the smallest one is an unused 25M reel of 2.5mm, the largest, erm, high-amperage type (cooker or electric shower, or something of that nature), not much left of that, not that I'll use it anyway...

So, seems I'm set for cable...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 4:57 pm   #14
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twocvbloke View Post
I think one of them things alone wouldn't be too happy with a washer and dryer going at the same time (the workshop doubles as the utility room, and when i do mine, they're both usually running at the same time)..
One of us will call the fire brigade when necessary.

Looks like it's time for you to sort out your electrics properly before something nasty happens. Judging by your questions and comments it might be a good idea to learn a little more about the subject before tackling it yourself, regardless of any Part P stuff.

BTW, there's no such thing as a 6A RCD. 6A MCB, yes. 6A RCBO, yes. But not a 6A RCD.

As for cable current ratings that's a rather more complex subject than portrayed here. The short circuit rating is a lot higher than the long term current rating. The latter also depends on how the cable is fitted. The rating is lower in conduit or in thermal insulation than when clipped direct to a surface. Flex (as against permanent wiring cable) is usually rated at a higher current for a given cross sectional area. This is mainly because it can normally be relied on to be in free air.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 5:14 pm   #15
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

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Originally Posted by ppppenguin View Post
BTW, there's no such thing as a 6A RCD. 6A MCB, yes. 6A RCBO, yes. But not a 6A RCD.
Another brain failure of mine....

Regarding the electrics, well, in all honesty, the whole house needs knocking down and rebuilding from scratch, cos the electrics aren't the only major problem with this house, it'd be nice when we move out, I'd be glad to see the back of it...

But that's another topic altogether, and probably not suited for this forum...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 5:21 pm   #16
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

We ought to know if the house is rented or owned. If rented, then you should not be doing anything to the permanent wiring. It's the landlord's responsibility to ensure it's safe which by your description it is clearly not. Anything you add should be plugged in with a 13A plug.

If you own the house then do yourself a favour and run one decent circuit from the fusebox to your workshop. Exact details to be decided but probably a 20A radial with an RCD. Then run the 5A sockets from an FCS fused at 5A.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 5:50 pm   #17
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

That's the sticky question, the owner (the mother's ex) wants to rent it to us, but, he owes the mother about £30k, therefore she's not paying up, so, I don't know whether to treat it as if we owned it or rented it, but the electrical safety is an issue I want to have sorted out, even if it means just undoing his "damage" and putting in something a lot safer myself, so, yeah, it's a messy and confusing situation...

The 5a sockets I plan to use in my bedroom (warmer and more room to move than the workshop), either hard-wired or as a removable extension, the workshop's too messy and damp for what I want to be doing...
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 5:57 pm   #18
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

I think it is worth pointing out in the interest of safety:

Quote:
Strict rules govern what electrical work can be done without notification and inspection.

Part P of the Building Regulations limit what electrical work may be carried out by anyone other than a professional electrician who is a competent person registered with an electrical self-certification scheme.

When work is carried out by a professional electrician, they will deal with the necessary paperwork to comply with the Regulations. They will also provide you with a signed Building Regulations Self Certification document together with a completed Electrical Installation Certificate.

The Regulations come under the jurisdiction of the Building Control Officer of the Local Authority for the area. You should contact them to find out exactly how they apply the Regulations.

Essentially, work falls into two categories: Non-notifiable and Notifiable.

For Non-notifiable work, your Building Control Officer may not require any notification but you should establish this for yourself.

For Notifiable work, your Building Control Officer must be notified before any work is carried out.

All work must comply with the IEE Wiring Regulations.

A competent DIYer may be allowed to carry out Non-notifiable work without having to notify the Building Control Officer, but it is always best to check with them first.
Examples of such work are:
Replacing sockets, switches and ceiling roses
Replacing damaged cable in one circuit
Replacing socket boxes

In addition, some other works may be deemed Non-notifiable anywhere except in kichens, bathrooms, utility rooms and other special locations. In these areas they will be considered Notifiable
Examples of such work are:
Adding light fittings and switches to existing circuits
Adding sockets or fused spurs to existing ring or radial circuits

You should refer to the Regulations themselves for exact details

If you are competent, you may carry out Noifiable work provided you notify your Building Control Officer in advance exactly what you plan to do. Once you have obtained permission, you will then need to have the work inspected and certified upon completion by a suitably qualified inspector. Full details of the proceedure and costs involved may be obtained from the Building Control Officer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...United_Kingdom

Cheers n Beers,

David......
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 6:04 pm   #19
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

If you've got a local mate who is qualified to do electrics I would suggest a or two for him (or her) to have a look at your electrics. Really to find out just how dangerous or otherwise they are. If they are genuinely dangerous then you and your mother may want to pay him to do the minimum necessary. You may be able to reduce the bill by acting as an unpaid gopher and you'll learn a lot at the same time.

As for your 5A stuff, don't even think about doing anything to the permanent wiring. Plug it in.

The rest of the stuff to do with the house is down to the mediators/lawyers/courts and definitely OT for this forum apart from offering you our best wishes for a good result.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 6:28 pm   #20
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Default Re: Wiring up some 5 Amp sockets...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppppenguin View Post
If you've got a local mate who is qualified to do electrics I would suggest a or two for him (or her) to have a look at your electrics. Really to find out just how dangerous or otherwise they are. If they are genuinely dangerous then you and your mother may want to pay him to do the minimum necessary. You may be able to reduce the bill by acting as an unpaid gopher and you'll learn a lot at the same time.
That's the thing, we don't really know anyone who is a competent or certified electrician, and annoyingly, when I was younger I actually wanted to be a proper electrician, oh how I wish I did all that now...

The wiring I'd consider dangerous are the parts he has added or altered, I mean, a 9.5 Kilowatt electric shower doesn't appear to come under "Non-Notifiable work", yet he has at least done that somewhat right (MCB connected to the fusebox, and from the MCB to the pull-cord shut-off switch in the bathroom then to the shower), the only thing he really mucked up with that was fitting an Earth bond, instead of running it along the skirting board or something sensible, he just took it under the windowsill, across the wall, down to the gas meter (that cannot be safe, surely) and bonded it there, very messy and ugly...

But anyway, this isn't really the topic of the thread...
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