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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 11:20 am   #21
David G4EBT
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

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Originally Posted by Biggles View Post
A bit off topic but I recently had cause to ring HMRC and was forced to wade through ten minutes of "talking" to a robot (speech recognition with a Geordie accent?...no!) until I eventually was deemed qualified to be passed on to a real person. Alan.
Voice recognition and accents? This says it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAz_UvnUeuU

The full Ofcom report entitled 'The Communications Market Report 2018' can be read or downloaded here:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-an...h/cmr/cmr-2018

Makes interesting reading.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 11:23 am   #22
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

"Did you say......Your hovercraft is full of eels?"

Lawrence.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 11:33 am   #23
G8HQP Dave
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

The decline in landline calls may be partly because many youngsters do not have a landline, or do not make its number known (e.g. my niece, who has broadband at home but nobody knows the number and they never pick up the phone). Most of our incoming landline calls are scams; if we are typical then 60-80% of the landline infrastructure is being used for scam calls.

The decline in mobile calls may be partly because the speech quality is insufficient for easy enjoyable communication. Landline characteristics were designed to be about the minimum to provide intelligibility and the ability to recognise a voice; mobile characteristics were degraded below this in order to minimise bandwidth. Higher call quality is available, but often needs compatible phones and networks so rarely occurs. In general, people do not complain about a poor experience but simply reduce their exposure to the experience in future.

If I need to phone someone from home I will use the landline, even though during the day it is more expensive than using my mobile.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 1:08 pm   #24
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

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Companies don't want people to phone them because it costs money to employ people to answer the phone. They'd much rather people did everything online
I am in the process of changeover to the new supplier of a particular utility.

Curiously, they like to use human sales people when they want to close a deal. Typically, there was one minor add-on that I has forgotten to request when the agreement was made.

I made a call to the assistance number, but there was nothing on the options that covered my account/request.

So I tried online chat but there was no option for exactly my type of account so I went to the nearest, asking clearly at the outset if they covered my type of account. After lengthy discussion of my requirements punctuated request for certain numbers in the PIN code that I had not been supplied and thus temporary codes to my mobile phone, blood group, maternal grandmother's date of birth, etc., the operative finally messaged that, actually, they didn't deal with that type of account, couldn't help and I should ring this 03 number as they dealt dealt with those type of accounts.

Oh no it didn't! Ringing the 03 number, though different from the earlier number used, put me in the same menu cycle as before.

Back to the online chat: tried a different (but still wrong) option on the menu and got a different operative. Same rigmorole couldn't help.

Groundhog day!

Back to the main phone number. Ignored the menus and after each "sorry I didn't get that" repeated my request using the stuck record method. Eventually a human answered over a hissy delayed line - clearly in some far flung land - who again could not deal with my request but put me on hold (with courtesy and apologies each time) while he talked to the XXXX team. Eventually I was put through to someone on a strong line with a northern English accent who was able to implement my request in moments: "Yes we can add that, that's an extra £x a month."

The time taken for this process: 1 hr 40 mins.

Damage to my temper and health through raised blood pressure: not yet quantified.

In the area of business in which I work there is a thing about answering the phone within three rings. Meetings will be puctuated by "excuse me I must take this call" which just goes to show how desperate we all must be in my line of work!
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 1:25 pm   #25
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Post script

This morning received a text from a client: "Got this problem: can no longer do XYZ"

My text back (figuring that I could spend ages up blind alleys writing exchanging texts) "Could be A, could be B, but suggest give me a call."

Call came in. Within a minute's conversation through a couple of questions I'd got the scenario and suspected a different diagnostic process might be necessary from that I might have tried when responding via text. Talked through a couple of things and in less than five minutes everything was up and running.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 1:26 pm   #26
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Our internet is 'fibre to the home' and my wife and I have smartphones, so we don't really need a landline, but many of our friends and relatives don't have smartphones, and some aren't on internet, so we keep the landline phone so they can call us. It's part of a 'bundled package', with internet and I don't think we'd save much if it went. There's no additional charge for all UK calls and calls to mobiles are weekend.

I get way more allowance with my broadband than I can possibly use - 800gB a month - I use 2gB on average.

I find it rather sad that so many people think it's OK to be fiddling with phones and tablets at the table at mealtimes, just as they do in the cinema or theatre. To me, that's borderline OCD. We have three granddaughters - twins age 17, and one aged 20. Heck, never mind about 'no phones at the table', they tell me off if I put my elbows on the table, and that's as it should be.

I was surprised to see that desktop computers have declined to just 28%, the inference being that 72% of users are content with a laptop or tablet, with a small screen, fiddly mousepad, tiny keyboard, or worse still, touch screen keyboard, which I hate with a passion. My former secretary has a laptop which never moves from her desk, into which she has a mouse, keyboard and 21" monitor plugged. Huh - why not a desktop? (I won't ask).

The use of e-mail seems to have declined markedly as a result of texts and apps such as WhatsApp.

I can't believe how inane Twitter and Facebook is and why - for example - users seem to feel compelled to upload pictures of a plate of spaghetti or a bag of fish and chips. What's that all about? Surely there will come a time when people will look back with incredulity at such antics.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 1:33 pm   #27
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

All of the above and none of the above. We're all individual in our likes and dislikes, so there is no ideal scenario. Wage costs dictated the move to automated call handling, then call centres went overseas to continue the trend. Unfortunately it was too successful, and the supply of the really good English speakers was quickly used up. Standards vary widely now, but the script they follow is more or less universal wherever in the world they are.
I like to work online, and am not keen on voice communication, but needs must if you need something, and just giving up is not an option. I too have found that silence can work if you know you won't be able to answer one or more questions.

To reverse the subject, I was once involved with the comms for a call centre in Sheffield. They employed language students to field calls from abroad. Doubtless many foreign native speakers said the same about them and their accents!
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 2:03 pm   #28
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

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My daughter in law's company has removed the email complaints system and people are obviously reluctant to call - so complaints have halved!

Alan
I have found that companies like to hide their email addresses away too! I am happy to contact electronically as I understand efficiency etc. but hate texting and think that a short vocal communication with anyone conveys far more. A common occurrance is ordering something from somewhere online, and then there being a problem. For one off's I do not usually create an account, and without an account it is nigh on impossible to chase up problems with some companies. There is usually an email address somewhere, but it often takes a while to find. Those companies get my black mark and lose future trade.

I like to talk to someone but am not prepared to accept waiting for a response with my bill mounting up, so initially search for an 0800 or other free number to call.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 3:17 pm   #29
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

It depends on the circumstance which is most efficient. I am quite happy to deal online if the infrastructure is there to deal with it. From my, and the supply company's point of view this is efficient. The company I was dealing with above is no small company - an established operation everyone on here (in the UK) will have heard of.

I communicate with nearly all clients by email once a brief is established. In one instance I have spoken to the fellow once in about five years. Email provides a good record and I am also wary of disturbing people by phone if it's not (this minute) urgent. They might be busy on something else.

Texts I use only for brief messages. Sometimes when a text query comes in I will phone back immediately, saying that I will probably solve the issue more quickly through conversation. Some situations can only be dealt with through conversation.

Although email is essential in my line of work, I have found people who avoid it unless absolutely necessary. The attachment might ping in and the call then follows - even if the instruction is simple and only required a sentence.

What I soon discovered when email came about was how many of the people that I dealt with in work situations were illiterate or near illiterate. Some ran businesses. Back in the day when a secretary would type the letters such shortcomings weren't apparent, but once email was on everyone's desk it was an eye opener. A report on R4 Today this week reckons that in the UK one in four people are functionally illiterate. This is frightening.

I am bugged by the obsession with the constant use of the smartphone. I have been invited on a social visit where I've found myself sat in silence because everyone in the room, young and older is staring at their phones. Perhaps they are talking to each other but via facebook instead. It's at this point I leave. Perhaps they are dropping a hint!

I was once a great user of that vintage technology: pen and paper. There was a regular exchange with friends near and far. It was great to read a few pages of news. This art is long gone and I miss it sorely. Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Dickens, the authors of the Bible got it all wrong. If you can't say it in 140 characters it ain't worth saying.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 4:05 pm   #30
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

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Originally Posted by David G4EBT View Post
I was surprised to see that desktop computers have declined to just 28%,
I am not surprised, many businesses need them or like your secretary a large screen and a laptop. Many home users find a tablet does what they need, mainly a few emails or texts, read the news, a relatively small amount of typing. Just shows how big a market there was for home computers if the use as declined so much.

I don’t have a desktop computer, gave it to the grandchildren, I didn’t use it, I have a laptop but the tablet or phone do most of what I need.

Work is one thing, home use can be completely different.

I am in my 70’s and find they do the job for me, but has Bill says we are all different and there are lots of choices available.

Definitely agree about Twitter and Facebook, not for me .
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 6:01 pm   #31
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

I think the habit of burying your head in a smart phone is a convenient way to avoid eye contact with other passengers who are forced inside your comfort zone due to packed public transport. Changing the subject slightly, I remember the endless amount of fun we had at work when the first text input phone calls came about. the ones where you could send a text to a landline and the robotic voice would read out the message when the phone was answered. We tried to confuse it with differently spelled words and context, like read and read and to our amazement it was pretty infallible.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 6:11 pm   #32
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Before the smart phone reading on public transport it was newspapers and books.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 6:24 pm   #33
David G4EBT
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Predictive text can be a help or a bothersome nuisance, as can spell checkers.

If I type 'Ofcom' it tries to correct it to 'comfy' and RSGB becomes 'ragbag'.

As to 'avoiding eye contact with other passengers on pubic transport', as a northerner and occasional visitor to London, I'm not sure if this is comedy or a documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YxLiLFjYKc
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 6:45 pm   #34
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

I still read (printed) books on the bus but then I'm into vintage technology.

When I was at school I used to listen to a pocket radio via an earphone when I was on the bus. I was clearly ahead of my time then.
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 1:16 am   #35
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the use of Skype, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp to make voice calls. These are often better quality than mobile calls and usually free to anywhere in the world. I would guess that something like 50% of the voice calls I receive are through these services.
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 9:43 am   #36
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the use of Skype, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp to make voice calls. These are often better quality than mobile calls and usually free to anywhere in the world. I would guess that something like 50% of the voice calls I receive are through these services.
This is true: and they have the great benefit that you can realtime share images/documents too, a great help when you're trying to assist an elderly relative complete her online tax self-assessment and she asks you "What do I put in box 4 on page 17?"

I still (for various reasons) still have a landline but it should be gone in a couple of months; I haven't made any outgoing calls on it for nearly a year (it's cheaper calling from my mobile) and usually the landline's ringer is set to 'mute' because I'm fed up with all the scam-calls.

Mobile calls I find are generally better quality than landline ones, and TBH most of my speech-phone activity is when I'm away from home - the "I'm on my way, see you in twenty minutes, is there anything you want me to pick up from the shop for you?" kind of thing. SMS is in a way better for this because they can return-text me a shopping-list rather than me having to remember it and avoid the "did she say skimmed or semi-skimmed milk?" confusion.
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 9:45 am   #37
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Off topic for a mo, & perhaps a worrying picture emerging, where are the young groups of people, young couples and young families visiting pubs? They're nowhere to be seen 'round these parts.

Probably nose-deep, a tiny screen, updating their on-line status so the whole family (sat next to them on the sofa) can 'see' what they're up to, whilst they're supposed to be watching 'celebrities' having fun on the TV. No, sorry, the TV is on, but everyone's watching different videos on their Tablet/Smartphone(s).

Back on topic, renewing car insurance & home insurance recently, a mixture of voice recognition & press 'something' to continue. The watered down Cornish/West Berkshire accent does nothin' to aid progress, as Lawrence inferred, did you say 'a week in Wales' ... Nope, I said nothin' o'tha sort! ... Sorry, did you day 'not into sport' Oops, it's still listening.

If you have time, inclination & it's a free phone call, it can also provide many moments of amusement!

Mark
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 10:37 am   #38
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Going back to my my original topic [vocal loss, as opposed to dealing with SR services-which is clearly related though] are the absent people sitting at home that Mark mentions [p38] or perhaps with others but still "absent" David [p26] losing the ability to communicate using speech by the same process that applies if you've not had much of an education? Will we have generations of permanent teenagers? There's a lot of evidence for it even in current 30-40 year olds and it sort of reminds me of the planet of Hair Dressers in Hitch Hikers! Given the need for some sort of "virtual" connection will say a cat on a hand held screen, replace the real thing ultimately? After all the whole Corporate development curve for these Gizmo's [particularly perhaps with Apple] has been to get "everything" on the one device, hence the slow death of the phone. Ironically most people are still dependent on the phone-line for the web at present and when I say dependent it's no exaggeration if the connection fails. It was much the same in the early days of TV Broadcasting [see eg the Emley Moor thread] but not everything in life was invested in watching TV as it is with the new small screen "communicators" of every type

Dave

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Old 4th Aug 2018, 2:33 pm   #39
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

Virtual pets, already around, although I think the craze as gone now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamagotchi
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 5:34 pm   #40
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Default Re: No Speech Recognition

I'm reminded of another topic on the R4 Today Programme last week which was a report that an increasing proportion of children starting primary school lacked basic speaking skills. Perhaps they have already mastered Facebook?
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