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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
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#1 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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Hi All,
Before we begin I’m not concerned about the difference in voltage as this is easy to sort, just thought I should clear that up before anything I've just bought a stunning looking BeoCord 5000 model 4716. I bought it from a US auction on ebay as it was quite cheap and the only one available. It has been serviced etc and seems to be in decent shape as well. However, on the listing photos I've just noticed that unlike the European models I've seen, it doesn't have a 110, 230 voltage selector on the back near the fuse. It just says 117 Volt, 60Hz, 25-50 W. No mention of 50Hz. So Will this model work okay in Europe with just a stepdown transformer as I'm based in United Kingdom? One of my biggest concerns is that the motor is going to operate too slowly, but since its originally a European device anyway I don't think it will be the case, but I'm not really sure on this. I genuinely didn't know there was a difference, but the Euro spec one appears to be multi-voltage and for both 50hz & 60 hz whereas the US domestic one appears to be 120 Volts and only mentions 60hz. I'm not too sure what motor it uses inside, there’s not too much information online. I think thats partly because B&O called one of their later 1980s cassette decks the Beocord 5000 as well, which is a completely different machine to the 1970s 4716 range. I do have a stepdown transformer, but I'm more concerned about the electrical Hz frequency than voltage, as Voltage is easily fixed with a stepdown transformer, frequency isn’t. Here’s some pictures First picture shows the back of the US spec 5000 I’ve bought and second the Euro spec which Appears to be multi voltage. Thanks Ryan Last edited by Ryan_1993; 26th Jan 2019 at 6:40 pm. |
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#2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,817
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Forum member Tim [Studio235] can advise Ryan. He's the B+O Guru and has his own website.
Dave W |
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#3 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,223
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The motors in these are DC so not synchronised to the mains. You can use it in the UK with a suitable stepdown transformer.
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#4 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,936
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It will depend on whether the motor(s) are AC or DC. They are probably DC in which case you should be OK with a simple autotransformer, but in the unlikely event that they're AC you are pretty stuffed.
It's not unusual for products destined for the North American market to be marked as 117V 60Hz only. As Dave says, Tim (Studio263) is likely to know exactly what's inside one of these so can give you a definitive answer. It would be an idea to send him a PM if he doesn't notice this thread. |
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#5 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 1,576
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you'll be very lucky if that works properly anywhere!
Both motors are not DC, the capstan motor is an AC asynchronous one (Matsushita) similar to that used in the smaller models. However, it is controlled by a servo system to regulate its speed. You may have to change the value of the phase shifting capacitor to make it start reliably though. The trouble with these Beocords is that they never work. The mechanism is B&O's own, and it is very finicky about the multitude of adjustments required to make it work. Even on top form they are unreliable tape munchers; sorry but that's just the way it is. In particular, the condition and adjustment of the pinch rollers is absolutely critical, if they aren't right in every axis it will never track straight and cause a lot of tape damage. The tension of the belt on the top of the deck is critical too, too slack and it will spool tape everywhere when you go from rewind to play, too tight and the take up tension (which must be exact) will be miles out. The tension of the belt underneath (capstan) is also very important. It must slip a little on the polished sleeves it runs on or the back tension will be wrong and (at best) the erase head won't touch the tape. Changing either belt is far from easy, it is hard to avoid upsetting many critical adjustments when doing it. The dealers hated these when they were new, many were written off as soon as the Beocord 8000 came out. It's one of the few B&O products which I don't repair, you just can't get them reliable enough for everyday use. Its a shame really because when they are working they are sublime, similar in performance to a Philips N2521 (e.g. absolutely top drawer). I have one in my complete 6000 4channel quadrophonic system and when its not going wrong its a really super recorder. There is a version of this deck in the Beocenter 4000 (original model) which was converted to single capstan operation. This helped a lot, with a following wind these can work well. However, it is hard to convert the Beocord 5000 to work like this as the heads aren't interchangeable without a lot of extra work. I did make a single capstan conversion for a 5000 by machining up a block which held the entrance roller off the capstan just a little; it was quite good but it didn't solve all the problems. |
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#6 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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I have been speaking to someone on a facebook audio group. He’s from Argentina so same electric standards as the UK, He bought a US only spec 120 volt model and it works fine for him, so I’m sure mine will be fine too. The seller I bough it from has been an ebay member since 1998 and they sell a lot of hi fi equipment. This has apparently been fully serviced.
I have a fully working Beocord 8000 under my desk, but its so large I don’t really have much room for it. Main cassette deck is my Nakamichi and my Marantz 5220 unit, but also have a modern 3 head Sony deck with Dolby S too, its just so damn Ugly I have it hidden away. Last edited by Ryan_1993; 26th Jan 2019 at 9:55 pm. |
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#7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,817
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I hope it works out for you Ryan and it will be good to hear how you get on
![]() ![]() Dave |
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#8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
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According to a schematic I'm looking at the capstan motor is AC fed from the mains transformer secondary via the usual servo/diode bridge arrangement, the motor therefore is an AC motor as has already been said by Tim (Studio263)
Lawrence. |
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#9 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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Thanks all for the useful information.
I have now cancelled my original order as the seller on ebay couldn't guarantee the item actually worked, even though its "apparently" been serviced, so that seemed like a waste of time really, especially coming all the way from the US. However, I was lucky as I've found a beautiful example in the UK on Facebook Market place complete with the original box. Its being sold by a B&O enthusiast from his collection and he's confirmed to me its all working fine. He also had a Beogram & Beomaster for sale, but unfortunately I have no room for those lol. So I've bought the 5000 from him instead. |
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#10 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,223
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I started repairing one just before christmas. and needed to order the belts, it was horrendous to dismantle, and looks even worse to re-assemble. I think I'll too decline to repair it. Dave: Tim is the expert on B&O equipment. |
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#11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,498
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Ryan, although the machine may be working now, the problem is when it inevitably needs belt replacement you will likely have trouble. If even techs with decades of B and O experience on here turn them away as a bad job, does that not suggest that this is not a wise purchase? If I were you I would take their advice and steer clear.
Please don't take this the wrong way, just trying to save you some grief!
__________________
Regards, Ben. |
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#12 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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Too late I’ve bought it now. I didn’t pay too much for it either given the rarity of the machine. A broken one on eBay sold for £175 just before Christmas.
It won’t be a main cassette deck but just another one to add to my collection, I love the design more than anything. |
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#13 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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Even if it does break or fail one day I don’t think I’m going to loose money on it. Since they seem to be in demand given their rarity
Also the other option is If it did fail, I’d probably just totally hack the inside to bits and do something like what tapeless Mp3 project does to his Cassette decks, turn it into an iTunes music server type thing. http://www.mp3tapelessdeck.pl He takes cassette decks and fits a smartphone or small LCD display in place of the cassette mechanism and then it becomes a retro modern Mp3 player. The touch screen also simulates a cassette playing. Last edited by Ryan_1993; 27th Jan 2019 at 5:44 pm. |
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#14 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,498
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You'd put some cheap chinese electronics inside a unit you've just said has rarity value? Doesn't make sense to me.
Remember this is a vintage forum, you're not going to make many friends here with that sort of proposal!
__________________
Regards, Ben. |
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#15 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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Umm, I’ve just been told by several members including yourself that if it does ever break in the future they aren’t viable to ever be repaired lol
A tapless mod would be the next best thing instead of the whole lot being scrapped or split up for parts. Externally, it would still look like a Beocord 5000, lets face it thats what most people are bothered about the external look of early B&O gear. I’d probably do that mod myself and install a 24 bit DAC inside or something. My 5000 is apparently all in working order for the moment, it even has the original box. So I certainly will not be doing anything to it yet. If it did break or fail in the future now that I’ve been told they can’t be repaired this tapless mod is something I certainly would consider doing. Its better than them sat doing nothing, collecting dust etc. Last edited by Ryan_1993; 27th Jan 2019 at 10:21 pm. |
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#16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
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They'll be even rarer by that time, though, especially if a lot of them end up converted. You'll be more desperate to fix it, techniques will have improved out of necessity as others faced similar problems and it will almost certainly be easier to 3D-print parts (or subtractively machine them). Where there's a will, there's a way, and all that. Other people will be fixing these machines up, and other other people are going to want to buy them!
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments. |
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#17 |
Hexode
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 329
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Decided to have a bit of a clear out sell my Beocord 8000 and an old Pioneer SX Receiver I had lying around and am looking for a BeoMaster 6000 Quad to accompany my Beocord now, it looks wonderful.
Seen one for sale in Europe at a B&O Hifi dealer, really tempted. |
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#18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,642
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As the question has been answered I'll close the thread. Please feel free to start another when a decision has been made.
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