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Old 24th Dec 2010, 6:57 pm   #61
ppppenguin
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

The Ferranti in this thread is the spitting image of a T311.

The LOPT looks really horrible but treat it gently and try to extract the core and coil assembly without breaking any fine wires. Cut the thicker leadout wires as required, possibly using spots of paint to identify them. There's a very good chance that it will be electrically OK, just as mine was which was almost as bad. Just need to build a new cradle as I described in another thread. You've got a new U25 rectifier so you can simply snip the old one out.

The tube is a lot tougher than you might think. Store it face down on a soft cloth to prevent scratches on the faceplate. Don't lift it by the neck though it will actually withstand this.

Last edited by Brian R Pateman; 24th Dec 2010 at 7:02 pm. Reason: Link fixed.
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Old 24th Dec 2010, 8:18 pm   #62
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Hi Jeffrey,

Many thanks for this information which is most helpful. I'll store the tube face down as suggested on a clean soft sheet. The Ferranti thread is also interesting and it does look to be a clone of my Ekco.

I retained the LOPTx rebuild pictures to disc you kindly sent previously and hope I can make as good a job of it. I'm useless with anything identified by colours as I'm colour blind and resort to using masking tape with numbers which works for me. I'm a long way off from attempting the chassis work yet as the cabinet is throwing up many problems to resolve.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 6:37 pm   #63
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Hi,

With milder weather forecast for next week I hope to clean the tube and chassis then store them safely in our spare bedroom until the cabinet restoration is completed.

Can any member please advise best procedure to clean the tube and anything to watch out for that could spell trouble?

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 11:19 pm   #64
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Hi Col. After the hoover and paintbrush treatment to get rid of the worst, I just use a bit of white spirit on cloth to gently clean off the back of the tube, so as to get any greasy mess off without rubbing off the coating.

Jeffrey has linked the parallel thread on my Ferranti in #61 - I thought it might be useful to add how the safety glass is fitted on my set, as it looks like its missing from yours. The glass has metal u-channels each side to prevent chipping and, presumably, for aesthetic reasons. It is simply slotted in at the top and held at the bottom by an L-section strip screwed into the rail. There is supposed to be a bit of trip to improve appearances but thats missing from mine.

Good luck!

Regards
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 11:19 pm   #65
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Depends on whether you decide to remove the scan coils. The glass of the CRT is obviously waterproof but try not to drench the graphite coating on the cone since it might flake off. This can be fixed with conductive paint but it's nicer not to have to do this. If you leave the coils on the neck just gently brush them or use compressed air to remove dirt. Wipe the rest of the neck with a rag and detergent. Don't get too much water on the base but it will dry out long before you need to use the tube again.

If you decide to remove the coils they may be well stuck on. Don't use force. Please ask again for advice if you have this problem.

PS: Cross posted with Simon. As for the safety glass arrangments I'll take some photos of my T311 to show the arrangment. I don't recall metal channels at the side.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 10:54 am   #66
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Hi Simon & Jeffrey,

Many thanks for this information; I thought it better to proceed with caution rather than just wash the tube off with soapy water; It's all too easy to do something in ignorance only to regret it later. Hopefully by me asking such basic questions it will help other novices attempting their first TV restoration.

I took a lot of care and have already removed all the scan coils etc from the tube and fortunately they came off easily; I took lots of pictures and made sketches of how the components were fitted and remember Mike Phelan explaining about the small clip which I believe holds a magnet to note its position as this is important.

I thought it best to remove all the tube components from the tube rather than try to detach the wires at the chassis as the chassis is so dirty making it impossible to see whether the wires were hard soldered or merely clipped into position and to try to manipulate both chassis and tube together on the bench would have been a struggle and I didn't want to damage anything.

I did however find as previously mentioned the chassis could be withdrawn clear of the cabinet as the leads were long enough to allow this; with the chassis on the bench I could then remove the tube and to get the chassis well clear I found the loudspeaker unit was attached to the rear of the chassis by a small multi plug; removing this plug I was able to fully detach the chassis. All this will be very simple to anyone with TV experience but for me it's like learning to walk once again. I did use a brush to clean the components before removal and they are now sitting on the bench but later today I intend to clean the tube and chassis then I can store them safely out of harms way; I'll wrap the scan coils in paper and place them in a plastic bag as they look rather vulnerable to damage.

Thanks for the safety shield information as this will eventually be extremely useful once I reach the stage of trying to fit it. I've already decided to buy laminated safety glass as this is readily available and can be cut to size whilst I wait. One thing I intend to do once I have the glass home is to run my angle grinder around the edges to remove the razor sharp corners; using a stone cutting disc in the grinder a light pass will ensure I don't end up with cut hands. This is a simple trick I learned a while ago as I cut picture frame glass for Bronwyn and I found running the sharp edges of the glass very gently against my bench grinder fine wheel doing it offhand made the glass safe to handle. The glass is not rested on the guide for this as it could possible shatter and heavy rigger gloves are worn for hand protection. Once the sharp edges are removed the glass can be handled in safety.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 11:30 am   #67
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired View Post
....One thing I intend to do once I have the glass home is to run my angle grinder around the edges to remove the razor sharp corners; using a stone cutting disc in the grinder a light pass will ensure I don't end up with cut hands.....
The glass merchant should be willing to do this for you if you ask. Not a fully bevelled edge which isn't needed.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 1:12 pm   #68
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Hi Jeffrey,

Thanks for the tip but It's rather funny because where I buy glass from the guy always appears to be miserable so I just buy the glass and leave. Out of interest though I'll ask to have the sharp edges removed when I buy the glass for this set and let members know if there is a charge for this service.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 2:29 pm   #69
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Not sure if you use diamond grit whetstones or an oilstone for shapening chisels Colin, but diamond grit whetstones are very effective for blunting the sharp edges of glass.
Admittedly the better quality ones (DMT for example) are expensive (in excess of £50) but cheaper makes such as 'Faithfull' can be had for a third of that price or even less. A 6" x 2" course one (EG 180 grit) is ideal for cleaning up glass edges and other tasks, such garden shears etc. (I'm already thinking about Springtime!).

Best of luck with the restoration - hopefully your veneers will soon arrive, if they haven't already, then you can put your new veneer hammers into action. One man's 'dream restoration' is, I guess, another's worst nightmare, but you're always up for a challenge Colin!

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Old 27th Dec 2010, 5:43 pm   #70
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Hi David,

Thanks for the information and kind wishes.

Yes I have a diamond grit honing stone; I also have Japanese water stones; the water stones wear rapidly but cut quickly. I'm rather wary about running any abrasive stone around the edges of glass as one slip can be painful.

The veneer has not yet arrived and I'm not in a hurry as long as it arrives undamaged. I've also splashed out on 2KG of hide glue today costing £22.15 delivered; this should do a few restorations?

After taking the pictures of my new veneer hammers the hammers were left on my computer table for a few hours where it is warm; when I tried to pick up the large hammer I found it was stuck to the desk; another case of bad timber kilning as sap had oozed out and the whole hammer head was sticky so it went into the bin in disgust. I think we should go back fifty years to when quality meant something. Apart from wasting my time in a cold garage making it no real harm was done. I won't be beaten though because I intend to make another large veneer hammer but this time using Whale Tufnol I'd like to see the sap ooze out of this? I'll post a picture once it's made.

I've just spent a very enjoyable couple of hours in the garage resulting in the chassis and tube now being stored safely in our spare bedroom. I gently brushed the tube clean without resorting to using any liquid and it made a great deal of difference to it's appearance; it was then placed into a large plastic bag taping the bag around the tube's neck and the tube is now stored face down on carpet. I tried to clean the chassis using my vacuum cleaner and brush which was fine where I could gain access but ended up plugging in the compressor and the air gun made a good job of it; a gentle blast of air around components and a good powerful blast around mountings and on the chassis deck revealed a decent chassis beneath the dirt.

With the tube and chassis out of the way I could turn my attention to the cabinet; I used the vacuum cleaner to clean the inside and what a lot of debris it collected; next I ripped away the foil screening which was more like paper with an aluminium coating? This cheered me up as the inside of the cabinet doesn't now look half as bad as it did and I was in a better position to assess the worm damage and see how the cabinet is constructed. All ply panels are worm attacked with a piece of ply to the base running front to back being fully riddled with holes but I noticed a pair of wood screws and wonder if removing these will release the panel enabling a replacement panel to be fitted. Given the amount of worm infestation I again blasted the cabinet all over and inside with a worm killing spray. It's amazing that a cabinet constructed no better than an old fashioned tea chest could survive for over half a century as this one has; due to the chemical spray I vacated the garage quickly and washed the car as the outside temperature felt quite tropical at above freezing.

Decision time is rapidly approaching whether to restore or replace the cabinet and at the moment after inspecting the cabinet today I might even attempt a restoration just to see if I can do it. I have one major problem because I intend to use hide glue and my glue pot is the traditional double container cast iron type requiring an external heat source which I don't have in the garage. Ideally a single electric ring would be ideal as found on kitchen hobs but problems are there to solve. An enjoyable afternoon.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 5:46 pm   #71
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Col,
What should veneer hammers be made out of?
Second hand - sorry, recycled - Oak is fairly readily available, and definitely dry and resin free.
Alan
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 6:00 pm   #72
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I've had a look at my T311s (I have 2) and the safety glass arrangment differs slightly between them.

On one, the left and right edges of the glass simply butt up to the cabinet cheeks with a tiny clearance. On the other there is black U channel, about 0.25" square section, on the left and right edges. Again a tiny clearance, the U channel is not attached to the woodwork. IMHO it looks better without the U channel, provided that the edges of the glass are nice and even looking. The top of the glass is held in a rebate in the cabinet.

The bottom is held by a metal strip. The section of the strip is about the same in both sets. About 0.75" visible height and turned over at both top and bottom. The top turnover is minimal, just enough to give a visible curved edge. The bottom edge is about 0.25", with 3 screws holding it to the woodwork. You could get a similar effect with a slightly thicker strip, radius the top and bottom edges and bond some small section angle to the bottom.

There is the word EKCO on each metal strip. On the set with no U channels the strip is bronze with the letters stencilled on in white. On the other set the letters are embossed. Don't really know the colour scheme since it was in a state when I got it. I've given it a good clean down with wirewool and left it as bare metal for now. I suspect that bronze paint would be right but no idea at all as to whether the letters should be picked out in a different colour.

I'll do some photos in due course, don't think it's urgent yet.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 8:13 pm   #73
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Hi,

Thanks Alan; I actually made the small veneer hammer head out of recycled oak but I think any decent hardwood should do.

Traditionally the hammer blade is a strip of 1/8" thick brass with the working edges rounded off but whilst surfing the web recently I've seen the blade made of hard plastic which could possibly be better than brass because hide glue won't stick to plastic; this gave me the idea of using a solid piece of sheet Tufnol as I have a number of offcuts. I must be getting used to the cold weather as I now feel like tinkering around in the garage unlike a week ago when all I could do was to struggle to keep warm. If it doesn't snow or rain tomorrow I'll have another go at veneer hammer making and post the results.

I'm so pleased Jeffrey that you added the safety shield (glass) mounting details as I was going to eventually ask; I had noticed what looked like three threaded inserts to the cabinet in the lower glass area but whatever had been used to retain the glass was missing. Your excellent idea of using a thicker metal strip with attached angle brackets appeals to me as Blackgates stock brass strip in various sizes; it would be possible to either spray the strip black to blend in with the angled wooden tube surround or indeed highly polish it adding a coat of clear lacquer together with the Ekco logo but as you rightly say I'm a long way from worrying about this yet.

Whilst I'm gathering materials I'm also spending time watching veneering and woodworking videos on "you tube" which hold a fascination for me as I'm always willing to learn from others and when I first started woodworking such information was not available so freely.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 28th Dec 2010, 8:22 pm   #74
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Hi,

I spent a few happy but cold hours in the garage today and am confident the new veneer hammers I made won't be oozing sap as I've made two from antique oak and the other as an experiment out of thick Tufnol.

I now have one completed veneer hammer made of Tufnol and three only requiring brass blades which I need to buy to complete them.

I gain as much enjoyment just tinkering around making things as I get out of doing restorations. I'm now back on track with new veneer and hide glue ordered and on their way to me; I need to buy a strip of brass to complete three of the veneer hammers and I'm searching for better plywood as the 1/4" ply I bought previously is rubbish. I'm taking my time with this cabinet and hope to post comprehensive details of work in progress.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 11:10 am   #75
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Hi,

Depressed; fed up; frustrated and annoyed about sums up this week for me regarding this Ekco restoration.

I bought and paid for new veneer which still has not arrived and no communication from the seller. I bought and paid for 2KG of hide glue paying £6.95 for overnight delivery; it hasn’t yet arrived and no communication from the seller. I bought two sheets of plywood which are rubbish. I spent the entire Wednesday afternoon playing a new game I’ve just invented called “Hunt the plywood”. I visited B&Q and was disgusted at the plywood on the shelves; it was so poor they could not have paid me to bring it away and at the asking price it was a rip off. I then visited “Boards” who were still closed for the holidays; I then visited Wickes who were selling the rubbish ply I had previously bought elsewhere it having a thick core with tissue thin veneer face and back; again highly expensive; finally I visited Walker’s Timber and at last bought two lovely pieces of hardwood ply with all the plies the same thickness and it is rated exterior use and at a good price of £4.

My joy lasted until I arrived home and removed this ply from the warm car only to find it had bowed rendering it useless for this application. During my afternoon out I endured grid locked traffic making the entire trip a misery. I’ve now wasted £8 on four small pieces of useless plywood; wasted an entire afternoon and wasted petrol.

I’ve spent hours on the Internet trying to find a supplier of cabinet grade plywood and I’ve been bounced around the world whilst doing so; many local companies appear to have a website but when clicked on to open all it does is open up a whole list of other companies giving basic details; I can buy container loads of plywood from China and India but I am unable to buy two bits of suitable plywood locally.

Yesterday I emailed the managing director of a large timber yard in Halifax; I’ve known this guy for many years but still await his reply. I emailed a very large company who specialise in plywood also in Halifax and again await their reply. I’ve never ever experienced such hardship trying to buy basic material; the Internet throws up thousands of websites all saying how good their plywood is giving wonderful pictures of boardrooms decked out in the stuff but no mention of actually supplying a bit to someone like me. I’ve even looked at MDF and find there are a number of grades of this material from the common grade to high density grades suitable for router work but once again not available to me in a small quantity.

This restoration is a big enough challenge on its own without all this additional trouble to go through and I want to encourage others into attempting such cabinetwork but how off putting is my story so far!!

All this is winding the big key up in my back and I lay awake for hours in bed last night considering my options. I could always walk away from the restoration but I’m not brainy enough for this option; I could simply veneer directly over the original cabinet having made good the damage; I could use MDF which to me is terrible stuff; I’ve considered using aluminium sheet as a thick core veneering both sides and this would also be excellent for shielding purposes or I could make my own plywood therefore take control of the problem once and for all. I’ve been thinking about making plywood and I have suitable machinery for cutting the core material; my saws and 10” planer could machine core material down to 3/16” easily enough then I could directly apply my new veneers (assuming they arrive before I fall from my perch) thereby in effect producing my own plywood. The core and veneers could be glued up and pressed flat between two thick sheets of chipboard and if I don’t manage to obtain the plywood I want shortly this is the way I’ll proceed; compromise on quality is not an option or I won’t even attempt this restoration; it will be done on my terms or not at all; I’m far from beaten and am now in fighting mood as all problems that get thrown at me just make me dig in and more determined to succeed.

My final option would be to go the whole way and make a brand new solid hardwood cabinet doing away with the plywood problem altogether. 50 years ago plywood was produced using old fashioned adhesives; even the cheapest grade as used originally in this cabinet was flat and perfectly stable. I don’t consider it progress 50 years later to buy plywood made using modern presses and adhesives only to have it curl up and distort enough for it to walk out of my garage unaided. Sorry for sounding off but I’m struggling.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 11:17 am   #76
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Col,
How about some recycled ply? Go to your nearest junk shop and look for some old furnature - wardrobe or some such.
Alan
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 11:51 am   #77
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

There's no doubt that 'fings ain't wot they used to be' regarding materials. When I built my cabin cruiser I bough 8'X4' sheets of mahogany marine ply from York Marinecraft of Bradford. It was superb quality but I have never found any as good since. Warpage should never occur with properly constructed plywood - but as you know, Col, and so do I to my cost, the stuff they call plywood these days could be renamed more accurately.
I think the idea of building up your own ply should, with the small area required, be viable and I look forward with interest to see if you take that path.
Be assured, though it is little comfort, that others are finding life difficut at the moment. Fingers crossed for the appearance of the so far absent materials.
Best wishes
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 1:58 pm   #78
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Hi Col,

Have a bit of patienence - it is the Christmas holidays after all. I doubt you'll get much in the way of communication until next month. All the building trade has been knocked sideways by the recent bad weather and now there's a proper rush on to get materials etc while the weather is better.

I had trouble with B&Q's crappy plywood warping and flaking when I needed to replace a window in my bus - even with generous primer, undercoat and layers of paint it only lasted a couple of months. In the end I got a cheaper piece from Chambers in Halifax and slapped on a coat of primer and then paint - it has lasted about 4 years now!

I think I'd still be tempted to give the existing cabinet a really good soak in worm-killer in a sealed plastic bag for a few weeks and see if the existing cabinet can't be fixed up though, but then again my woodworking skills aren't up to much!

Dom
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 9:36 pm   #79
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Hi,

Thanks Alan; vintage plywood would be ideal in fact I think I have a large wardrobe back panel of 1/4" thick plywood under the bungalow but it says a lot about modern plywood if I have to resort to such measures. I do agree that much very solid furniture is available at rock bottom prices yielding best quality hardwood for a fraction of the new price these days.A sound idea thanks for adding it.

I think making quality plywood at home to be a viable solution as you rightly say Tony in the sizes I need; two panels 24" square x 1/4" thick is all I need; and I could machine the inner core assembling it like block board which also used to be good material. if the weather was warmer I would seriously consider this approach just for the fun of trying it out and to hear my machines sing; it was so dark during the day here yesterday that I could have lost my way to the garage!!

I could always cut a bit of slack regarding my demands on delivery of goods as you suggest Dom but in all honesty I checked and found the parcel of veneer had been posted nine days ago from Norwich; in nine days I could walk from Norwich to Huddersfield but then I wonder if this is what is happening as a large bag of post on the shoulder is bound to slow one down a bit.

I won't moan too much Dom about delivery as this has been such a problem for everyone recently apart from me who fitted snow tyres to the car in readiness. A Christmas holiday and a bit of snow and the usual "Lessons will be learnt" message will put everything back on track again until next time it happens again.

I'm with you all the way on trying to restore this cabinet Dom but it is one huge challenge considering the condition it is in; thanks for prodding me into considering this option in more detail before I finally decide what to do. Regarding patience; I think I exercise considerable patience during my restorations or I would be jumping up and down on cabinets; I do however lack patience when it comes to poor workmanship and poor quality materials at extortionate prices. Bron and I hope you can visit us in the New Year.

I've had one bit of success though in that I pulled a bit of Sapele veneer from stock last night and tried to bend it. I soaked it in hot water for a few minutes then bent it freehand around the curved edge of our work surface in the kitchen; this has a similar curve to the front top of the cabinet and it was a real breakthrough for me. It wrapped around the curve without breaking and just to test if it would retain the shape I gently closed both ends trapping them overnight to dry under the printer. I thought bending veneer to be a major problem and this alone has caused me a lot of concern as I knew I would eventually need to veneer the curved top panel. This was a very rough test but the result can be seen in the picture so I'm finally moving from all the problems so far into something more positive.

I'm going to be occupied turning four wooden radio knobs giving me a break from this TV for a short while and if successful I'll add a thread covering making them. Next week the holidays will be over so fingers crossed I can then make progress with the cabinet.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 10:26 am   #80
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Col,

Perhaps surprisingly eBay has plywood for sale. I've bought a lot of timber of various sorts from eBay shops and been pleased with it.
Is this any use to you - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Plywood-Russia...item35a7dc109a and it's not too far away by the look of it.

Jim
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