BBC Radio 4 long wave reception problems etc.

[MurphyNut]

Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies

I emailed David Allett last night and he has replied saying he is on to it.

I've just sent him an email, I was prompted to send another one after doing a comparison between speech on Radio 4 (LW) and Radio 5 (MW).
What a diference! Radio 4 sounds distorted, restricted and grainy by comparison.

[G6Tanuki]

Pushing the "AM analog longwave BBC radio4 service as part of emergency services" line truly went out the window a decade or so back, and harping on about it won't change the truth that for most people these days their media-platforms are via Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, FM/Digital radio, streaming-audio [Spotify, Apple iTunes Music Store etc] or TV [whether terrestrial, cable, satellite or 'on-demand' services on their phones].

I'd bet my pension on saying that less than 1% of the UK population listen to Long Wave R4 in any week.

Accept reality - R4 Long Wave is a legacy service that's living on borrowed time: think of it like the old 'Blockbuster' video-rental stores, as a thing-of-its-time but whose time has passed. Enjoy it while it lasts, but don't expect it to last forever.

[paulsherwin]

It's more than 1%, though less than 10%. Some places have no FM or DAB coverage, as anyone who has driven to Aberystwyth will know. Some people aren't bothered about sound quality and find the LW service more convenient.

[PaulR]

Is it better this evening?

[Heatercathodeshort]

I drive as many as 3-5 different vehicles most days. Mostly HGVs and note which stations their radios are tuned to. I have never discovered a single one tuned to Radio 4 on LW.
Most are tuned to non BBC stations and the rest to Radio 2.

It is a pity that LW is being degraded in an attempt to make it unservicable to us vintage guys but I fear it will not be long before it vanishes together with MW transmissions.

I have lost my interest in vintage radio due to the lack of middle of the road stations on MW/LW. At 69 I am far too young to get involved with Radio 4

Regards, John.

[Stuart R]

Originally Posted by PaulR

Is it better this evening?

The Midnight News on Saturday night sounded much better than Friday night's.

I don't expect a perfect listening experience on AM; there's a constant buzz of SMPS noise which I can tolerate, but I found the 'off tune' sound annoying and had to finish my listening via the DAB clock radio.

SR

[Hybrid tellies]

R4 LW 198 was sounding much better last night and is still sounding good today. Let's hope it lasts.The other night it was so bad I had to retune to BBC R Wales on 882Khz to listen to the BBC WS news. It was much clearer even with slight co Channel interference from a Spanish station.

[ndg-2000]

Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort

At 69 I am far too young to get involved with Radio 4

Haha brilliant, I'm 42 and Radio 4 is what's on in my van every day. Unless The Archers is on! Must be old before my time LOL.

[PaulR]

I really don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory about the transmitter problems. If the BBC/Government wanted to close it down they would just announce it and do so. I don't know what the problems are but I think they are just the result of limited maintenance and monitoring of ageing equipment.

[MurphyNut]

Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort

I have lost my interest in vintage radio due to the lack of middle of the road stations on MW/LW. At 69 I am far too young to get involved with Radio 4

Regards, John.

Ha Ha, I see your point, I find I enjoy Radio 4 more and more the older I get.
Regarding losing interest in vintage radio due to nothing decent left to listen too.
I dont think I'd ever have that problem, I simply love the look, design and the fascinating old technology found in vintage radios, it goes beyond what comes out of the speaker.
We do have options in still using them, if worst comes to worst, I have a Spitfire AM transmitter and of course many sets have gram inputs which play MP3 / ipod devices very well.

[Heatercathodeshort]

My interest in vintage radio has always been what is inside the wood box. The more 'odd' the better. Until very recently my pleasure was to build simple TRF receivers, maybe a couple of EF91s, winding my own coils as in my Utube exploits.

Sadly I can only obtain sports programmes in this area or sad BBC local radio that really should only be receivable via cable to care homes..

Maybe a pantry transmitter is the option but there is nothing like the excitement of connecting an aerial for the first time and tuning in an off air station.

I think the old Long Wave Light Programme/Radio2 should have been retained rather than the change to radio 4. It may have had a much wider appeal especially with transport drivers.

I hope we retain FM as long as possible. Without doubt it is the best system of broadcasting by a mile. John.

[Hybrid tellies]

Just a heads up. David Allett emailed me yesterday to confirm the fault on the Droitwich R4 198Khz transmitter had been cleared on Saturday, 19/08/17, afternoon.
I think its now sounding as good as it ever has.

[PaulR]

Excellent! Thank you Simon.

[gramofiend]

Seeing all of the posts concerning quality issues for R4 LW reminded me of my early years on the early shift (0615-1415) in the welsh region in 1970.
First thing through the door was to check the meters on the power cabinet, then the rack of ppms (peak programme meters on the master monitoring panel as well as the automatic monitors major for alarms. Then visit the small refreshment area and power the kettle! You need to prioritise!
Next, if there were no alarms going off, you sat down and went through all of the off air receivers for your area and monitored for quality. Incidentally R4 LW, from Droitwich, was one of the reserve feeds for R4 and always assessed for Quality. Even the pipsqueak relay on MW at Penmon was monitored for quality in North wales by the staff in Bangor.
I suspect that that none of that happens any longer. Members of this forum know how difficult it is to contact any body about quality issues in the BBC which appears to have gone from the British Broadcasting Corporation to the British Broadcorping Cast off Company or even the Broken Biscuit Company.
I remember the organisation shedding jobs and virtually all of the engineering department, this after transmitters had been sold off complete with as many staff as wanted to stay. They are now back to nearly as many staff as in my day but most are 'ARTISTS' and with some really gifted ones as recently noted after enforced declarations.

The Long wave service from Droitwich, still regarded in certain parts of the northern hemisphere as something worth listening to, is part of the professional output of the national broadcaster of this country! R4 was placed on this channel to provide both internal and external to this country, access to this information service!
If this was Germany and I am well aware that it is not, a different set of rules would ensue.
A decision would be made by the broadcaster service on an end of service date. this would be placed before the relevant leaders of the state who would consult within the population and either agree to withdraw the service or refuse and extend the life of that service.
Of course here in Britain we are better and know more, so we do the corporate thing and bring in 'Exsperts' ( sorry about the spelling). Two syllables Ex meaning, has been, and sperts, equals drips under pressure!
The decision is therefore to let it carry on and do nothing, then when it goes wrong, let it fester for a while and when the complaints rise to boiling point eventually get one of the contractors to sort it out. Of course most of you should know now that the BBC has turned into something that a previous Director General said would NEVER happen. John, now Sir John Birt stated in a staff publication, that the 'BBC would never become a Publisher Broadcaster. In selling off its' transmission chain and not being able to control the output it has become exactly that!
So R4 Droitwich is, as has been referred to, part of a legacy system.
I cannot think of any piece of equipment save satellite that covers most of the United Kingdom and from Iceland to Morocco and with such a pleasing mixture of programming. Yes the internet is fed with all of the different flavours of the BBC. I wonder how much all that costs to send across the world, bearing in mind, that we as licence payers, pick up the bill!
After that diatribe I must admit that R4 LW from Droitwich does sound very nice out in the middle of the country near Welshpool on my large floor standing RGD console set and my Murphy corner panel fed with 150 feet of aerial. No background noise, no mains born interference and you can hear the announcer draw in a breath and sometimes operate a fader on the console. In a darkened room it is still an experience!
Mike

[Ted Kendall]

Ah, the BBC that was...

This problem sounds like some software-based processor which needs the occasional reboot. Should be simple enough to give it a hit in passing every so often...

[PaulR]

I have to say that until R4 first went faulty as "just a member of the public" I assumed that the situation outlined by Mike still existed. I thought that the possibility of BBC radio transmissions being anything other than perfect was highly unlikely. A bit like the British armed forces I just assumed that the BBC was the best.

I remember as a young teenager writing to the Engineering Department with what in retrospect were elementary enquiries and I always got courteous and informative replies. Another illusion shattered!!

[paulsherwin]

Even the major transmitter sites are lights out operations nowadays, and there has been no routine off air monitoring for at least a decade. The transmitters all send telemetry to Arqiva but nobody is actually listening to the output.

As I understand it, the R4 LW distribution chain is separate from the standard BBC setup and contains lots of arcane redundancy arrangements dating back to its key role in cold war planning. All of this will be 70s and 80s custom built hardware and I have no doubt that there's nobody around today who understands how it all works. The sensible approach would be to decommission it and use a simple link to BH in London, maybe using a satellite or internet feed, but that would count as new capital expenditure and the BBC won't fund it. As a result we soldier on in an increasingly rickety manner.

[MurphyNut]

Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies

Just a heads up. David Allett emailed me yesterday to confirm the fault on the Droitwich R4 198Khz transmitter had been cleared on Saturday, 19/08/17, afternoon.
I think its now sounding as good as it ever has.

Great news indeed, glad you got a response as he didn't bother replying to my last two emails! Perhaps he was receiving too many to get back to!
Enjoying nice Radio 4 sound again on my Murphys.

[Junk Box Nick]

Originally Posted by ndg-2000

Haha brilliant, I'm 42 and Radio 4 is what's on in my van every day. Unless The Archers is on! Must be old before my time LOL.

I used to listen to Radio 4 when it was still on MW with my first home made Practical Wireless OC44 receiver. I used to fall asleep listening to Book at Bedtime and mother would come in and gently remove the earphone from my ear. I even listened to The Archers! I was still at school. Don't know what that says about me. (Or perhaps I do...)

Re R4 LW in the car: LW reception in my recent cars has been very poor. My current car (16 years old) has an upgraded radio (CD player!) compared with the one (cassette player!) in my previous car of the same model but older. Test Match Special was tolerable quality in the previous car and I could hear RTE reasonably out of town but LW reception is hopeless in the current one. (Bear in mind that Droitwich is just down the road from me.) MW was ok but it seems they were paying little attention to LW back at the turn of the century. In new cars it's probably all FM/DAB and bluetooth whatever.

The previous generation of AM/FM car radios seem set up for FM and to get acceptable reception on AM but not optimised for LW. The little stubby car aerials that are inevitably a compromise won't help.

In any hire or courtesy car I find that the presets are invariably set to various pop stations and Radio 2. A week ago, as a favour, I picked up a customer of a business where I go and do a bit and he immediately remarked that I was listening to "a decent station" - Radio 3.

[MurphyNut]

Originally Posted by gramofiend

After that diatribe I must admit that R4 LW from Droitwich does sound very nice out in the middle of the country near Welshpool on my large floor standing RGD console set and my Murphy corner panel fed with 150 feet of aerial. No background noise, no mains born interference and you can hear the announcer draw in a breath and sometimes operate a fader on the console. In a darkened room it is still an experience!
Mike

I can relate to this, I live near Watford and now experiencing very good sound indeed. I'm constantly surprised at how detailed and pleasant LW can be to listen to on old radios. I'm wondering if the nature of the sound is more suited to vintage equipment than modern.