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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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16th Sep 2018, 9:41 pm | #1 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
I have got a lovely renovated Bush SRP31C record player which has a Garrard 210 deck in it but the autochange mechanism is very slow and practically seizes on the autochange/record drop cycle (then it runs perfectly after you have pushed the turntable round to get the mechanism to drive the autochange cycle) I would like to swap the deck with a later Garrard 2025 autchange deck that is much more smooth and works perfectly, is this possible? i.e. will the motorboard in the Bush take the Garrard 2025 deck? bearing in mind there is the plugs at the back of the board so that I cannot just swap the motorboard from the Garrard 2025 directly with the Bush one. Thanks Bushvhf
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16th Sep 2018, 10:13 pm | #2 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
The motor board for the 210 is totally different from a 2025. You will probably find that the idler wheel has gone hard and needs to be replaced.
I use Terrys Rubber Rollers |
16th Sep 2018, 11:43 pm | #3 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 2,074
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
It's usually old hardened grease that bungs these up - try turning a hair dryer on the mechanism to soften it and see if it frees up (not a long term fix - it needs proper cleaning - but it serves as a test). Also a drop of Acetone can often revive a hardened idler - give it a good dose and a rub.
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16th Sep 2018, 11:59 pm | #4 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
thanks for that, pity about the garrard 2025 not being a viable replacement because of the motor board!! I really dont like this 210 deck as it SO DAMNED COMPLICATED and heavy for the little idler to operate properly, I can see ENDLESS problems with it, can you recommend any other autochange deck that would be a viable alternative to this 210 deck? thanks Bushvhf
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17th Sep 2018, 12:34 am | #5 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 2,074
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
Maybe a silly question but do you have the mounting board for the 2025? You could use it as a template. I do sympathise - I am very fond of the old 2025 as well - one of their better ones IMHO.
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'....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan) |
17th Sep 2018, 7:02 am | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,302
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
I agree about the complexity of the Garrard 210, but do try freeing it up first.
The Garrard 2025 will fit, but suggest you make a complete new motor board and keep the old one so you can retrofit it later if ever needed. You can finish the new (plywood) motor board in a grey paint to match. Presumably you will fit a stereo cartridge so do bear in mind the wiring circuitry around the co-ax plug arrangement at the back. If it were mine I would bridge the channels on the 2025's tag card and bypass the original wiring to avoid insertion loss.
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Edward. |
17th Sep 2018, 8:44 am | #7 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
The 210 is complicated, I’ve serviced enough of them, however properly serviced and with a rebuilt idler the deck does work nicely and in fact the deck is no heavier in the auto slim and successive decks.
My test on any auto changer is to put it on the slowest speed, (mainly 16) and see. If it goes through the change cycle without any help, if it does then the deck is working. With the 210, take it apart in stages, take lots of photo’s, make drawings, and use a good quality grease when re-assembling. |
17th Sep 2018, 9:38 am | #8 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
I had this 210 deck seviced by a very competent engineer so I am taking it back to him, but it does seem to be a common problem with these decks that the auto mechanism is so heavy and laborious that it does often slow up and seize, obviously Im not playing the deck every day and it is stored sideways up (like a suitcase) in a warm wardrobe in Central heated house, so not in a damp shed or anything like that. I made a little vid of the auto mechanism on a 45 single (33 is just too slow and it wont work at all) and the mechanism will only just let the record drop from spindle, then it will speed up and play at the right speed but at the end of the record it lifts of the record and then it totally seizes unless you turn the tuntable by hand, it seems to be a very tighly engineered mechanism that needs alot of "torque" from the idler to drive it all, its such a shame as the BSR decks (which are considered inferior to a Garrard) work every time on my Bush RP50 (but that has an annoying hum I cant get rid of) I have a feeling that this garrard 210 will never be right. Thansk BushVHF
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17th Sep 2018, 11:08 am | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
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Re: will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
As said above, the rubber idler and old hard grease on the (admittedly complex) mech are to blame for sluggish operation. It is very rare for anything more serious to go wrong - No need to make mountains out of molehills!
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17th Sep 2018, 11:44 am | #10 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,764
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
I don't see why it would be prone to this if it was serviced properly to be honest. If anything like the 121 MK2 with the size selection mechanism, a lot will need stripping down and cleaning properly, but once done should be rock solid for the foreseeable. Its substantial work but the deck shouldn't miss a beat once done. With other decks you can get away with more basic work like freeing up the cam and trip pawl.
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18th Sep 2018, 7:05 pm | #11 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
yes, I have a feeling its not been properly done!!
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19th Sep 2018, 8:05 am | #12 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
I actually have the chance of a nice Garrard AT6 deck, do you think this would fit the Bush SRP31C? I wonder about the reach of the tone arm at the back as it swings out to play a record as it has that "ingot" type weight on the back, on some youtube vids it looks like the tone arm really sticks out alot over the side of the deck when the tone arm is playing a record, would be a better option than the old 210 deck if this would fit? thanks Bushvhf
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19th Sep 2018, 9:52 am | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,302
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
The Garrard AT6 is a very good deck. The counterweight may protrude a bit at the back, depending on what weight of cartridge is installed. In most cases it may well protrude. Whilst it's a better deck than the 2025, the latter is more liable to be a safe fit. In terms of sound, you will not be able to tell any difference between them given the inherent limitations of the Bush's amplifier. The main determinant will be the type of cartridge fitted.
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Edward. |
19th Sep 2018, 11:23 am | #14 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
THANKS EDWARD, I am worried about the way the counterweight on the back of the AT6, it is in a big dynatron radiogramme and I see on youtube that the counterweight does seem to swing out on some of the AT6 deck videos, as it is going to replace the 210 deck in my Bush SRP31C I am worried about the clearance at the sides as the motorboard only has about 1cm clearance at the sides, there is also the two sockets on the back of the motorboard on the Bush SRP31C, it would be great shame if the AT6 deck wont fit because as you say its a very good deck and the radiogramme itself is only £20 and quite close to me. thanks BUSHvhf
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19th Sep 2018, 2:11 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,302
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
Ah, so you don't even have the AT6 yet?
I thought you said you were going to fit a Garrard 2025 which still seems the best option. As I said you will hear no difference in sound between the AT6 and the 2025.
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Edward. |
19th Sep 2018, 4:37 pm | #16 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
well, I decided to keep the 2025 deck in my ITT/BB KP040 record player as that is in very good cond. I went and collected the £20 big dynatron queen anne radiogramme before as my repair man said he would like it even if the AT6 deck doesnt fit my Bush record player, I took both to him after getting the £20 dynatron and he said he would see if the counterweight on the AT6 has enough clearance on it to put it in the Bush, if not he said he can but a similar 2025 style deck in my Bush record player., that he has in another radiogramme, The Dynatron radiogramme is a beauty, a lovely big heavy sideboard type queen anne reproduction piece of furniture, I am sure he will get that working. For £20 it was too good to pass up. Bushvhf
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24th Sep 2018, 2:01 pm | #17 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 71
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
In the end, the AT6 deck wouldnt work in my Bush SRP31C, apparently it was shorting the input (could that be to do with the overwind on the deck?) anyway there is going to be a Garrard 1000 deck put into my Bush record player, I have yet to see it. thanks BushVHF
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24th Sep 2018, 3:15 pm | #18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 5,549
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
It will cause a problem.
One deck has a motor with a low voltage tap for a transistor amp and the other has a heater tap for a valve amplifier. Swapping them without adding a small transformer will cause smoke. |
24th Sep 2018, 7:11 pm | #19 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
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Re: Will this work? Garrard 210 to 2025 motorboard
The SRP31 has a proper separate power transformer, and does not rely on the changer motor. The secondary winding could have been left unconnected.
However, it's possible for the new changer to have been slightly bigger than the original and fouled on the stereo sockets.
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