|
Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
22nd Jul 2019, 8:20 am | #1 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
I have a Philips EL3542 four track tape recorder dating from 1961 which after a few years of trouble free service has now developed an annoying noise through the speaker. This gets worse as the volume control is advanced. It is present in the stop position and in the playing position with or without tape.
Tape playback is still possible but the additional noise makes listening to a tape difficult. The best description I can think of at the moment is a cross between rustling a brown paper bag and the noise a coffee machine makes when heating milk with a steam pipe in Costa Coffee !!! (Other coffee shops are available !!) I have cleaned the valve pins and all switches. Visually I can’t see anything bulging or getting hot. I have found a circuit diagram and intend to check voltages quoted over the next few days with Avo 7 or Avo 8. Valve line up EF86, ECC83, EF86, EZ80, EM81. I was wondering if anyone has had experience of these tape recorders or could suggest a possible starting point or solution. Many thanks in anticipation. Nick
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |
22nd Jul 2019, 8:56 am | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,595
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Those German made "Wima" brown lozenge shaped capacitors are as notorious as wax and "Hunts" Moldseal capacitors are in the UK! I'd certainly start by replacing them.
|
22nd Jul 2019, 9:34 am | #3 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Thanks Dazzlevision. I can only see one of those so far. Will order a replacement.
Mods I think I have posted this in wrong section, could you move it please if that is so? Thanks Nick
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |
22nd Jul 2019, 9:55 am | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,595
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
According to the UK Philips full service manual, available on HiFi Engine website (if you join - no charge), that Wima is C2, the EF86 g2 decoupler.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_li...s/el3542.shtml Your valve line up is incorrect, it should be EF86, ECC83, ECL82, EZ80 and EM81. It's very unlikely that any of those "Mullard mustard" capacitors are faulty (actually the Philips/Mullard C296 series of axial Polyester dielectric types). There are a couple of small axial leaded capacitors on the large tag trips, which have a transparent outer coating - not sure of the make. If they have a paper dielectric, they are suspect, especially if one end is connected to an HT source. Other than that, I'd suspect those darker bodied small resistors (that are probably carbon composition types) of being electrically "noisy", especially if they are anode load resistors. Last edited by dazzlevision; 22nd Jul 2019 at 10:05 am. Reason: Added text. |
22nd Jul 2019, 10:22 am | #5 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
It was was hifiengine where I got the circuit diagram from, thanks. Must check the valve line up again too. Excellent info on which components to check, thanks again dazzlevision, much appreciated.
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |
22nd Jul 2019, 10:25 am | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,601
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
I bought one of those new - brilliant machine,not that it helps you. That sort of noise on radios I have had due to a break down in insulation of multi contact switches, the paxolin type anyway, by leakage of HT voltage into the signal circuit.
If you have an external amplifier of some sort you could try tapping the signal off at various points to locate the section that its originating in, or you could use a scope if you have one. Peter |
22nd Jul 2019, 2:05 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK.
Posts: 1,515
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
You're lucky, my Cossor CR1601 clone of this machine had all Wimas. Leaky as Hunt's finest I had to change the lot! :-(
|
22nd Jul 2019, 2:50 pm | #8 | |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posts: 1,631
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Quote:
The fact that the noise seems to be proportional to the volume control setting indicates that it at least is one of the stages prior to the volume control. |
|
22nd Jul 2019, 7:05 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bradford on Avon, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,301
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
If it's a constant light crackle(like frying bacon) then could be DC getting onto a pot due to a leaky cap.
__________________
"Nothing is as dangerous as being too modern;one is apt to grow old fashioned quite suddenly." |
22nd Jul 2019, 7:46 pm | #10 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Thanks again for very valuable advice. I did read the same valve twice Dazzlevision, so the line up is correct as per service sheet.
I always thought these were a great machines and I saw my very first one at the age of 10 in school back in 1959. That was a Stellaphone 2 track mono. At one time I had collected seven of these machines badged with Philips, Stellaphone and Cossor and various configurations two and four track. I will work my way through all the suggestions changing caps etc one at a time and retesting as I go. Will post any progress, or lack of !!! Nick
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |
22nd Jul 2019, 7:56 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,549
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
As stated, those Mullard 'mustard' caps will not be faulty. However that 'toffee' Wima is a 'change on sight' type....they were giving trouble in the 1960's......!
It is very unlikely you will need to change any of the 'mustards' so don't bother ordering loads of caps.
__________________
There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman..... |
23rd Jul 2019, 7:41 am | #12 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Thanks Sideband, I will follow the advice over which caps to replace and report any progress.
Nick
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |
23rd Jul 2019, 7:48 am | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK.
Posts: 1,515
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Only the EF86 is prior to the volume control so this is the obvious starting point.
|
24th Jul 2019, 8:36 am | #14 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Powell River, British Columbia, Canada.
Posts: 217
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
The discussion so far has covered the usual bases. There is one thing
that I remember about the EL 3542 A from the past. The automatic stop circuit derives voltage to work the metallic leader relay from the cathode of output tube. This voltage charges a capacitor which discharges into a relay, which in turn applies a high voltage to the release magnet. Check that assembly thoroughly . If worn, dirty, or arcing, it may throw noise.
__________________
Steve Dow VE7ASO |
24th Jul 2019, 11:22 am | #15 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales, UK.
Posts: 139
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Another thing to check: Has the machine been used in ‘Record’ recently? From my previous experience of servicing a Philips machine of similar age one problem that caused noise/distortion was dirty switch contacts in the Rec/Play changeover switch. Try a bit of contact cleaner and working the switch back and forth a few times - with the power off.
Bill Last edited by BillDWVA; 24th Jul 2019 at 11:26 am. Reason: Spelling |
26th Jul 2019, 10:31 am | #16 | ||
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Quote:
Quote:
Nick
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |
||
26th Jul 2019, 1:19 pm | #17 | |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posts: 1,631
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Quote:
I'd agree, considering the noise level seems to be affected by the volume control, the anode resistor for the EF86 in the input stage would be a prime suspect. |
|
29th Jul 2019, 1:40 pm | #18 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,488
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
If you have an oscilloscope, play a tape and check the audio waveform through the stages of the amp, starting with the EF86 section. You'll soon find the fault.
The axial Wima cap needs to go - even if it's seemingly behaving itself - they are trouble! Also, it may be worth removing re-seating all the valves a few times, in case the pin to base contact has oxidised over time. Free to do and sometimes successful These are very nice machines and worth restoring if it's in generally good nick - (although I 've seen many poor examples I've had to scrap.) I have some heads here somewhere and perhaps a pinch roller - if you need it.
__________________
...where on earth did that spring/screw go?? Last edited by whiskas; 29th Jul 2019 at 1:59 pm. |
31st Jul 2019, 7:27 am | #19 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,100
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
I have one of these, they are a good machine. I have posted a copy of my user manual on the Radio Museum page. https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_el3542.html
Scroll down to near the bottom of the page. Mike |
4th Aug 2019, 8:39 pm | #20 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mansfield, Notts, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Philips EL3542 tape recorder problem
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help/advice - Crackle, Whiskas and Ricard. I have an original copy of the user manual too, thanks Crackle. As soon as the ordered components arrive and I get chance to work on the machine I will post any updates.
Nick
__________________
I think I have repaired this radio beyond repair !! |