UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12th Apr 2010, 11:50 am   #21
rayr0683
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
Posts: 40
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hello,
There is something called the Fair Trade Backup which means that as long as you own the original copy of any copyrighted movie, etc.....you have the right to make a backup copy, so long as your not pirateing them. Which your not. SO, you actually have a right to do so. Ray
rayr0683 is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 12:30 pm   #22
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

I think you'll find that the copyright is owned by the TV Station which produced the programme. Possibly the BBC.

Posting such material on YouTube is not the same as making a backup copy.

US law doesn't apply to the UK in any case.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 1:26 pm   #23
DOFFERY
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,488
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Exactly Graham ,as pointed out to me on the letter which arrived with the copy the TV company sent me at the time, which has just come to light when I found the VHS copy.

Copyright, copyright , that is a subject in it's own right but not for this forum.

Colin.
DOFFERY is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 4:16 pm   #24
rayr0683
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
Posts: 40
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Oh Blimey! Churchhill wouldn't have stood for this! LOL...Just Joking. Ray

Last edited by Dave Moll; 12th Apr 2010 at 5:28 pm. Reason: unnecessary quote removed
rayr0683 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2010, 10:38 pm   #25
Walter303
Diode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Daventry, Northamptonshire, UK.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hi Guys,

I've always loved the Ferrographs.

Suggest Ray checks out George Wests site http://www.ferrograph.info/ to see why us Brits love them so much.

I've just finished bringing a Logic 7 back to life.
My wife bought me two ex BBC machines for Christmas and after replacing the gummed up idlers and swapping the amp sections around I've got what I always dreamed about, a fully functioning Logic 7 (no Dolby sadly)

I've still got several pre recorded Beatles tapes which I'm going to get out the attic and enjoy again soon. These tapes from the 60's were recorded at 3.75 ips in two track mono and used to sound great. I hope they still do.

When I'd finished putting the working Logic 7 back together my first test recordings were from the remastered Beatles Rubber Soul CD.

I recorded it at 15 ips and when I played it back through headphones I felt like George Martin at Abbey Road twiddling the balance and tone controls. It was stunning.

Next on my shopping list is a TEAC X1000M or X2000M. I imagine a reel to reel with Dolby must be the absolute DB's of analogue sound recording.
These machines can play 2 and 4 track tapes so I'll then dig out my 1980's recording of the Beatles at the Beeb.
I recorded this on an Akai 1720 at 7.5 ips in 4 track stereo from the FM radio transmission at the time.

I read somewhere the TEACX1000R and X2000R are to be avoided because like all other auto reverse decks they go wrong quite often plus I don't think you get the 2 and 4 track option.

These top of the range reel to reels are such a far cry from the Walter 303 my dad bought for the family in 1957. It was a single speed 2 track mono machine that took 5" reels. It had a green magic eye and a joystick. The mike was made of cast alloy. I've got a photo of one off ebay if anyone is interested.
Walter303 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 3:54 pm   #26
rayr0683
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
Posts: 40
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hello Walter,

I will be sure to check out the site you listed above, im curious about Ferrograph. As for the Brits, Im with you guys. I prefer the British equipment in lots of areas of my audio system. For example, my Turntable is a very well respected Tank of a Table, the VPI HW19 MK.IV....and on it is the ZETA Tonearm from GB Tools in London England...this tonearm, even by todays standards is considered world class. Its a battleship of an arm, not fussy at all, and built very seriously. Ive never had a desire to stray from it. It is suited best for the best of the Moving Coil Cartridges of the Classic 80's...or even the Best MC Cartridges of Today, ZYX, Benz, Koetsu, any of the Denon's etc...My front end is awsome.

As for the Reel to Reels...your right, auto reverse decks are not really built for 2 track. Some of them do have an extra head, so that you can have 2 track playback on the machine, but the Recording is done in 4 track, since when changing/reversing sides of tape, you are now playing the other 2 tracks of the tape from which you just listened to the first 2 track of. So, they use all 4 tracks of a tape. But I'll tell you..I have had both, Reel to Reel decks, Top of the Line, from AKAI, TEAC, TASCAM, etc....and I have had them with Dolby, and also with DBX Type 1. I can tell you, that a properly alligned deck, with DBX Type 1, will give you recordings that blow Dolby away. No contest. Especially DBX Type 1. This is what is used on the TEAC X-2000R...and AKAI GX-747 DBX.

As to where you hear these things about the TEAC X2000R or X1000R going bad quite often, that is not true. That happens to people that do not take proper care of their machines. The only common problems that ever seeem to occur with the TEAC X2000R's is, if sitting too many years untouched in a closet or basement, the Grease stiffens up, which is an easy fix....clean it and re-grease. Very easy to get to the area also. These TEAC X2000R's have one of the very best Tape Transports in the business. Thhe only other weak point, is if your the type of person who does a very lot, and I mean a very lot of High Speed Rewind, and Fast Forward...you put alot of wear and tear on the motor which controls that, and it is a DC Motor. I dont know why they switched to a DC Motor for this function, it was always an AC Motor, and would last forever. But the DC motor is not as strong to withstanding that sort of abuse. Otherwise, these are very reliable, dependable decks, and Parts are still readily available for these from TEAC. Plus these decks were in production right on up till almost the year 2000. So, they are both modern, and easily serviced with new parts on hand. These are favorites of many tapeheads.

I do however have a 2 Track Deck. Of all my decks, most are 4 Track, and right up to Factory Specs. I have had them all redone recently, so they are in top shape. Since 3 of these are 4 track decks. I chose to Keep my Tandberg TD20A-SE as my 2 Track Deck. These tandbergs sonically are amazing, and I have at leat the one for my 2 Track recordings and Playback. Plus the SE Edition of the TD20A has special circuitry making it an extremely quiet deck, recordings are amazing. This may be my very best Deck of all. Nice Looking too.

At any rate, I have owned and loved British Speakers, like B&W's Rodgers, and loved my old British Goldring Cartridges. Among many other things. As I said, my favorite musicians are all British Invasion, and later British Rock Bands. No Contest!

I had USA Built machines like you speak of, 2 track Mono, with the Green magic Eye Tube....these were usually Webcor, Wilcox Gay, and some others. Take Care, Ray

Last edited by Brian R Pateman; 17th Apr 2010 at 1:10 pm. Reason: Quote deleted - not needed.
rayr0683 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 4:53 pm   #27
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Well, just try recording a piano with dbX of any stripe - playback comes complete with heavy breathing. Dolby is about the only thoroughly engineered NR system to have appeared in analogue times.

I had a Walter 101 once. Moving on...
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 7:05 pm   #28
Walter303
Diode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Daventry, Northamptonshire, UK.
Posts: 6
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hi Ray and Ted,

I enjoyed reading your comments thanks.

I think Ray must be a similar age to me. I was 13 when the British Invasion arrived in the US. The British bands were real trail blazers back then but The Beach Boys and The Byrds were up there too. The Monkees did a few decent songs but not many.

Back to reel to reel.

I think there was a Walter 505 too.
I tried to find out more about Walter tape machines. I think they were a Middlesex based company but I didn't find any more when I searched.
Anyone know anymore about Walter?

I saw a Ferrograph Studio 8 on eBay a few weeks back. Whoever bought it must have needed a crane to get it home!

Anyone got any experience of this machine?

I've attached an ad I came across for the Walter 303 a few years back. Jack Jackson used to do a great Saturday lunchtime radio show in the 60's. It was based on lots of tape edits and I reckon Kenny Everett was probably inspired by him.
Did Kenny Everett do anything in the US I wonder?

Regards

Walter303 (real name Ian)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Walter Brochure.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	7.6 KB
ID:	34568  
Walter303 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 10:56 pm   #29
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Walter were on the scene from about 1956, initially as an OEM supplier, but then started selling under their own name. The stuff, frankly, was awful. When I got my 101, I already had a Grundig TK8, and it was no contest. The Walter wowed, got hot, had permanent magnet erase, a panel pin for a capstan (it was so thin a single sided bronze bearing ran all the way up it) and a deck mechanism made of Klim tins. The BSR Monardeck was, by comparison, the height of sophistication.

The 505 was a little better, we are led to believe, but the death blow was the Metropolitan, a mains/battery portable introduced for 1961,with wow around 1% and a signal to noise ratio in the twenties. Bankruptcy was not long delayed.
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 11:13 pm   #30
rayr0683
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
Posts: 40
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

It must be Gospel if you say so......I said properly setup decks, and DBX units.......otherwise, Breathing. Ray



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Kendall View Post
Well, just try recording a piano with dbX of any stripe - playback comes complete with heavy breathing. Dolby is about the only thoroughly engineered NR system to have appeared in analogue times.

I had a Walter 101 once. Moving on...
rayr0683 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 11:29 pm   #31
Andrew2
Nonode
 
Andrew2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

My only experience of DBX was on a few cassette decks, and it was not good. Deep noise reduction, but noise pumping and a sort of 'deadening' of ambient sounds. Not nice. Well set-up Dolby B may have reduced the hiss by only 9 to 10 dB, but it generally kept the sound reasonably well.
Dolby 'C' suffered from the same heaviness.
Me, I'd prefer no NR at all and just tolerate the background hiss.
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 11:29 am   #32
Roger13
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 508
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hi.

Personally I question any need for NR on a good Reel to Reel running at 7.5ips upwards. Tape hiss on a properly set up machine, using good quality tape should be unobtrusive and introducing any form of NR must have a deleterious effect somewhere along the line.

It's worth bearing in mind something that audio engineers and journalists were very aware of back in the golden days. The quality of sound from that recorded musical instrument you're listening to at say 5khz is affected by the related harmonics at maybe twice or three times the frequency. You don't hear them directly but they contribute to the final 'sound' of the note. Unleash dbx or Dolby N/R and you radically alter the overall frequency band.

To my admittedly 'high mileage' ears, Dolby encoded recordings always sound slightly flat in comparison with the same recording unencoded.

Just my tuppence worth!

Cheers,

Roger. PS: Ever heard a dbx encoded LP? Now that was worth the trade-off!
Roger13 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 12:09 pm   #33
TIMTAPE
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Antipathy to any tape Noise Reduction has been pretty common but I think it's generally been amongst casual users rather than people who used it in a more serious way with good gear.

These days with digital audio recording there's no need for noise reduction which makes things a lot simpler.

But with a properly set up machine and tape, either Dolby and dbx gave great noise reduction with virtually no artifacts.

People might be surprised to know that back in about 67, The Beatles Seargent Peppers album used Dolby A noise reduction to good effect.
Equally, countless recordings were made using dbx and you would struggle to hear any artifacts when they were produced properly. Many of your favourite recordings from the mid 60's on were probably recorded using either Dolby or dbx!

dbx was known to have breathing effects but more on recorders that were already noisy, and mostly on material such as an unaccompanied bass instrument with little harmonics to mask the noise pumping.

Generally when people say they dont like Noise Reduction because it loses the ambience or muffles the highs I tell them their record/replay system cant be aligned correctly. Both Dolby and dbx required quite accurate recorder alignment to achive transparent results.

Roger, no offence intended but if you think Noise Reduction wasnt needed, I wonder if you have ever tried to faithfully record a live performance or concert rather than just copy an existing commercial recording or broadcast onto tape. The requirements can be rather different.

Cheers Tim
TIMTAPE is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 12:15 pm   #34
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

The problems of dbX are unfortunately inherent -it's basically broadband compansion with emphasis/de-emphasis, and this will cause audible noise modulation on some material no matter what you do.

Dolby A, properly lined up, is, to all intents and purposes, inaudible in operation. This is due to the use of four separate bands of NR, with carefully chosen attack and decay times such that its action is masked by the signal. B is less ambitious, tackling only HF noise, but covers its tracks just as well, at least on open reel. The problem with cassette seems to be consistency of line-up, and it seems possible that the HF content of some cassettes is fading with time, causing tracking difficulties. The Play Trim on some NAD decks can help with this.

The more complicated systems, S and C, worked OK on open reel (Fostex multitracks, for example), but were in my experience too touchy to work inaudibly in real world cassette applications. SR, though, the second generation professional system, actually delivered what dbX promised, albeit several years later. The digital revolution was by then too far advanced for it to have much impact...
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 3:09 pm   #35
Lodgesound
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hi;

My collection is small but as follows:

1 x Nagra T audio with all modifications and accessories
2 x Nagra SN miniature recorders with all accessories including replay adaptors
1 x Otari MTR12 (purchased from Dave Stewart)
1 x Technics RS 1500 US
1 x Nagra D
1 x Philips N4520
1 x Nagra IV S TC

Dolby 363 A/SR encode/decode unit.

I love all of these - in terms of sheer sound quality the Otari and the T audio with Dolby SR win hands down.
Lodgesound is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 10:16 pm   #36
TIMTAPE
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

My "favourite" tape recorder is by no means the most expensive or best sounding but the one I bought as a teenager with my first pay cheque from my first job. I wish I still had it.

It was a 1958 Stuzzi Magnette 671B, a little Austrian battery powered job powered by four 4.5 volt batteries. It had seven OC series transistors and a tiny "magic eye" for monitoring recording levels.

It used two motors, one for the capstan drive and another solely to drive the reels. It also sported a battery level indicator the same as used on a Nagra portable.
I notice it only lasted two years of production, perhaps because it would have been expensive to produce and may not have been competitive in terms of price.
I now have other tape machines far grander but strangely this one is the one I wish I'd kept.

http:/www.radiomuseum.org/r/stuzzi magnette.html

Cheers Tim
TIMTAPE is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 10:26 pm   #37
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Dolby A at Abbey Road in '67? I think not...Decca were certainly using it in 1966 for the conclusion of the Ring cycle, but general adoption (and indeed series production - Decca's first units were built on Veroboard) took until the turn of the decade, and, in any case, Pepper was done on one-inch four track (all right, seven if you count "A Day in The Life"), which offered adequate s/n for "rock and roll" (can't do the Sean Connery accent in print), with care.

dbX appeared in the 70s...I was dubbing some dbX tapes once, for a digital editing session the next day 200 miles away (don't ask!) and was horrified to discover that the stereo image was wandering. Having delayed the session, I did what I should have done first and rang a mate who used to be maintenance engineer at Strawberry Studios, Manchester, which was STUFFED with dbX. His comment? "Yeah, it does that...'orrid, innit?" Session reconfirmed, and we got away with it on speakers, but...
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 12:25 am   #38
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,814
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Dolby A on one [or two] 4 track Studers doesn't seem at all right for the Beatles in 67. They were amazingly advanced just with the multi tracking! Dolby would be unknown except for the superior [of course] classical recordings [I believe].
I did try and get a tape jockey job at Strawberry studios Stockport in 1970 though. 10cc/Pink Floyd era.
Although not that technically superior I've made many invaluable 3.75 ips recordings courtesy of an Akai 4000 but this is looking at it from a utilitarian rather than professional or nostalgic point of view. Recording at 7.5 was a bit of a cost and time barrier in itself then! Dave W

Last edited by dave walsh; 18th Apr 2010 at 12:40 am. Reason: more info
dave walsh is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 4:36 am   #39
TIMTAPE
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Ted and Dave,

Whether Dolby A was used on Sgt Peppers is hardly a life or death issue but can either of you offer any solid evidence that it wasnt used? I'm only going on what I've read at various times.

There are apparently extensive books written about The Beatles recordings including a book entitled "The Making of Seargent Pepper".
George Martin and Geoff Emerick are still alive.
Ray Dolby's A system started being used, as I'm aware, in 66 or 67.

These things dont need to come down to one person's "opinion" against another's. The facts should be able to be easily verified. I'll certainly go hunting for confirmation one way or t'other. Perhaps you will do the same!

Cheers Tim
TIMTAPE is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 9:42 am   #40
Brian R Pateman
Nonode
 
Brian R Pateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK
Posts: 2,136
Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMTAPE View Post

It was a 1958 Stuzzi Magnette 671B,
One of these Tim?

A nice little unit, which must be quite rare as I've never seen another one.

Mine still has the perspex cover and both reel retainers although the reel retainers have both been repaired at some time. Sorting those out is on my list of things to do.

Regards,
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Stuzzi001.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	76.8 KB
ID:	34637   Click image for larger version

Name:	Stuzzi002.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	59.6 KB
ID:	34638  
__________________
Brian
Brian R Pateman is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:08 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.