Castles in the Sky, the story of Radar and Watson Watt

[Nymrod121]

Originally Posted by McMurdo

(snipped)
I look forward to an RV Jones Battle of the Beams drama (already seen the docu) which is begging to be made.

I think I'd prefer to read the book again .... in *my* mind, the pictures are better
Best wishes

[SiriusHardware]

Originally Posted by Omegaman

Missed it and it's not on I-player

Actually, yes it is!

It normally takes a little while for any programme to appear on iplayer after it is first broadcast.

I've just looked and it's available there now @ 12.45am, 5/9/14

[KeithsTV]

From memory I started using Hertz rather than Cycles per second at the end of the 60s probably encouraged by its use in my A level physics.

As an aside I've just ordered a copy of the BBC 1977 series The Secret War which is finally released on DVD this coming Monday. It's based on RV Jones Most Secret War book and covers Radar, the Bending of the Beams and Enigma and other exploits of RV Jones team.

Keith

[lesmw0sec]

Very disappointed with it. A load of fictional 'drama' with the cheek to add a few well known names to build it out.

[David Simpson]

Think I'll follow Keith's example and also acquire the DVD.
I've certainly no wish to ever see a repeat of last night's twonk. The technical context was amateurish. Didn't see the credits at the end, but whoever the directors chose as a technical advisor should hold his head in shame.
Mutterings about Power leads to higher frequencies which lead to greater distance, and ionospheric refraction, and using a small GT valve, were laughable.
How did they power up the portable equipment in the back of the van ? The engine wasn't running, there was no noisy generator running, nor even a rotary PSU running off the van's batteries.
A great disappointment. I had hoped to see a lot more test equipment in use, and at least a mention of the actual frequencies in use.
Then there was the scene where a guy was handling a post-war parabolic antenna !

Regards, David

[Station X]

The programme wasn't aimed at the likes of forum members. If it were the audience would have been very small indeed.

I disliked the way that whenever a piece of equipment failed it did so with a bang. Bad mains filter caps perhaps. I didn't see anything that looked like it could generate 100's of kilowatts of RF. The Daventry plane looked like a De Havilland of some kind.

As a drama it wasn't too bad, but not good enough for me to want to watch it again.

[Omegaman]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

Actually, yes it is!

Thanks for that. I'll look again. Just me being a bit quick off the mark!

[HamishBoxer]

Enjoyed and have it on hardrive so if any one is stuck PM me.Will be sending a copy to my pal in Northampton who no longer subscribes to a tv licence.

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by lesmw0sec

Very disappointed with it. A load of fictional 'drama' with the cheek to add a few well-known names to build it out.

Originally Posted by David Simpson

I've certainly no wish to ever see a repeat of last night's twonk.

Agreed; both quotes.

Al.

[kenneth]

Didn't see the programme but talking of R V Jones,,,,,,,
Was always amused by one of his solutions to a serious technical problem as related in his wartime autobiogrphy 'Most Secret War'. In his capacity as a scientific advisor to the Air Ministry he visited Malta where he was told that the RAF radars were being rendered ineffective by German jamming and he was asked if anything could be done about it. He said he would give it some thought and the following day suggested that when they switched on the Radars they should keep them switched on and act normally despite being hopelessly jammed. This continued for a number of days after which the jamming ceased and never resumed. After the war RVJ met his German counterpart who, during the course of discussions, asked how the British has managed to overcome the jamming - RVJ explained that they hadn't, they had only pretended they had. The German did see the funny side of this. Could there have been a more cost-effective solution

[RF Burn]

I know it's only a drama programme designed to appeal to the general public, however, if my wife's reaction to it is anything to go by then it gives us engineers a bad name...

"All those long hours you work, just messing around, playing games and waiting for inspiration"

So much for the 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration 'reality'!

Adrian

[Skywave]

The book "One Story of Radar" by A.P. Rowe, (Cambridge University Press, 1948), is a truly fascinating and satisfying read - if you can find a copy.

Al.

[KeithsTV]

I have both the BBC Secret War and RV Jones Most Secret War books. Both make fascinating reading and show the cat and mouse games going on between the two sides.

We dare not speculate where we would be now if it hadn't been for the likes of RV Jones and his colleagues.

Keith

[wireful3]

As others have said it is a drama entertainment programme. As it was linked to the Open University I hoped for a bit more of the basic science behind it. The inter relationships between people seemed a bit excessive in comparison. No doubt cricket on the beach did occur but not as such a big issue. It did not reflect the hard work and determination needed most of the time.

The domestic radios around were convincing, as was the general decor and clothes. I have no experience about the technical equipment though. It seemed convincing to me but I am not too sure about oscilloscopes built into 19 inch racks.

One thing that sticks in my mind was at the beginning, when it seemed necessary to talk about fishing line with a bell tied to it to explain the need for early detection. I would have hoped the people involved would have taken that for granted.

Adding to the Hz comments I occasionally worked with ministry scientists in the 1960s and megacycles seemed to be the favoured currency.

[telstar]

Hi. A most enjoyable programme, and good enough to see again.
Did anyone see the sign for the Orford Ness establishment on the entry gate? There were buildings similar to those on the programme on the site when we last visited in 2006. Many other buildings have long been demolished. For those interested in reading about Orford Ness and its many contributions, it is called "Orford Ness Secret Site" by Gordon Kinsey. There is a fair bit about radar in one of its chapters.
Cheers
Mike

[Andrew2]

I enjoyed this, but it could have been better. As a radio engineer, I cringed at some of the technical terminology - the use of 'Megahertz' instead of
'Megacycles per second'. And in the last bit where Watson-Watt reached into the back of the telly to get the latest valve, it really should have been
the famous Mullard EF50 from the Pye IF strip. It wasn't.
They were also claiming 350 KW from a set of scrap old clobber that looked like it might manage about 200W downhill with the wind behind it. The Open University who co-operated in the production called it 'the untold story...', but in fact the story has been in the public domain for years. The only bits that
surprised me was the 'mole' who was reporting to Lindemann and the nicking of radio parts from the Naval base - perhaps these were added to spice up
the tale? Eddie Izzard seemed an odd choice to play a man who was generally reckoned to be rather colourless and dour, but he was quite engaging. All
in all, an enjoyable 90 minutes, spoilt by me grumbling at the telly.
I recorded it to DVD so I can moan all over again!

Edit: Great to hear of the release of The Secret War on DVD. I have a transferred-from-VHS DVD in the archives, but it's not a happy bunny.

[paulsherwin]

I thought Izzard did a good job. He's a much better straight actor than you might expect from his comedy persona.

[dave walsh]

Despite the resevations, it seems to have gone down better with the Forum community than previous productions[whether technically based or not].

I agree that it's good news about the tranfer to DVD of the seventies series
Secret War -flagged up by Keith p43* [hardly an aside really] and Andy-thanks. I'd missed this at the time [somehow]. A few years back it was mentioned here but it was difficult to locate and expensive on VCT.
Shortly afterwards and during the yearly "War Time Weekend Re-enactment" in Ramsbottom I was amazed to find Ep2 in one charity shop and Ep 1 in another. Furthermore these are the two episodes [out of 8] that deal with Radio/Radar.

Paul's right about Mr Izzard. When BBC2 started up they showed a live broadcast of "A Day In THe Life of Joe Egg" about a couple struggling with a disabled child. He was extraordinary as the father. Comedians are often very serious people-Tony Hancock for example.
Dave W

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Andrew2

They were also claiming 350 KW from a set of scrap old clobber that looked like it might manage about 200W downhill with the wind behind it.

Remember that Radar is pulsed: 350Kw with a 1:1000 duty-cycle is only 350 Watts average input. Just as important to Radar as the development of the Magnetron was the development of high-current high-speed switches a.k.a. 'Trigatrons'.

See http://www.museumoftechnology.org.uk/expand.php?key=849

[dave walsh]

Erratum pst 58*. BBC2 should read "BBC4" [2002].
Dave W