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Old 28th Mar 2007, 5:34 pm   #1
BBCmicro
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Default 'Puzzle' and other unusual records.

I have a copy of Monty Python's record Matching tie and Handerkchief. Listening to the B side, I noticed how short it was. A few days later, I listened to it again dropping the needle near the beggining, but not on the leading bit, and it played something completely different! There are 2 tracks on one side, the pair of grooves running side by side. What is this method called, and is it common?
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 5:40 pm   #2
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Default Re: Strange record

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... something completely different!
very appropriate for Monty Python
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 5:44 pm   #3
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Default Re: Strange record

I've heard of this record but never actually seen one. These concentric grooves are certainly not a common technique, possibly unique to this record.
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 5:50 pm   #4
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Default Re: Strange record

No ,I have a 78 probably 1930s that has at least 3 tunes on each side which is fun
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 5:54 pm   #5
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Default Re: Strange record

HMV produced 78's in the 1930's which had three tunes on one side, as chipp says. They were sold as 'puzzle records'.

Regards,
Keith
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 6:06 pm   #6
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Default Re: Strange record

I remember this '3 sided ' record.

It's rather fun to think that there will be owners of it who have never realised there was another 'side'.

It must have been technically challenging. I do recall the sound 'trace' quality was pretty appalling in places.
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 6:12 pm   #7
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Default Re: Strange record

Yes multi track records were quite common pre-war, I have most of the HMV "puzzle records", many featuring Al Bowlly with Ray Noble. I believe there were some horse racing game discs with as many as 6 tracks! The attached is a recent aquisition, circa 1930, the label description is interesting with 'A' & 'B' marked on the edge of the disc to denote the start of the 2 tracks, about 1 1/2 minutes each .

Regards, Mick.
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 6:22 pm   #8
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Default Re: Strange record

Any other LPs using this technique?
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 6:29 pm   #9
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Default Re: Strange record

There was a Martha and the Muffins 45 rpm record called Saigon - the B side was concentrically cut and one was forwards and one played backwards...

Andi
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 6:34 pm   #10
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Default Re: Strange record

Apparently yes!

http://www.kempa.com/blog/archives/000044.html

Lots of them.

Regards, Mick.
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 6:53 pm   #11
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Default Re: Strange record

Hi,

I have a 78 record that is meant for the game of Musical Chairs. It has three different parallel tracks on each side, each track has random silent bits to enable the players to find a chair before the music continues. I guess that would be pre-WW2. The actual music is not to my taste though!

Ian.
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 7:25 pm   #12
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Default Re: Strange record

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Originally Posted by Jarl Ayari View Post
There was a Martha and the Muffins 45 rpm record called Saigon - the B side was concentrically cut and one was forwards and one played backwards...
Yes, I remember that! Don't forget "Pop Muzik" by M 12", the edited version and the flipside were on one side, the extended version being on side 2.

The was called "Double Groove",

Surprisingly quality was good, although at the end of the shorter "M Factor" one could hear faint "Pop Muzik"!

Cheers,
Brian
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 9:04 pm   #13
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Default Re: Strange record

On a similar but more digital note, there are some CDs that have a hidden track before the disc starts. The only way to access it is to start the first track and then rewind, where the machine goes in to negative numbers. Pressing vinyl with multiple grooves must be costly though!
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 9:30 pm   #14
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Default Re: Strange record

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On a similar but more digital note, there are some CDs that have a hidden track before the disc starts.
And DVDs that have extra scenes that aren't mentioned on the menus or sleeve. I accidently found a hilarious one on one on an old Ali G / Borat / Bruno disc the other day. They seem to be known as "Easter Eggs" : http://www.dvdeastereggs.com/showTitles.php

I've got to say that I've never seen or heard of these multi-grooved records, and find the whole idea fascinating
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 9:40 pm   #15
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Default Re: Strange record

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Pressing vinyl with multiple grooves must be costly though!
Cutting the master disc is more complex but you only do that once. All subsequent processing to make the stampers right through to pressing would be exactly the same as for an ordinary disc.
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 9:40 pm   #16
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Default Re: Strange record

A bit more info on puzzle records, Available in India from 1910 until the 1950s , From this site:-

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/indcent.htm


"The ‘puzzle’ records were introduced around 1910 and continued till fifties. Each side had three different songs (of about one minute duration) not one after the other but in three separate, concentric grooves. With a slight variation of the start point, a different song would come out each time, astonishing (or, as the name suggests, puzzling) the listeners. These were produced in small numbers. Early puzzle records were on Zonophone labels and featured voices of Jankibai, Mohd Hussain and instrumental music by Talim Hussein (Shahanai). Puzzle records of films Awara (Hindi), Amar Bhoopali (Marathi), were produced and are found listed in HMV catalogues but it is extremely difficult to find the copies of these records now".

Regards, Mick. .
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Old 28th Mar 2007, 10:57 pm   #17
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Default Re: Strange record

I have heard the racing record which has six tracks on it. Start the record,Drop the arm and you had to bet on which of six horses would win. it depended of course on which track the needle or stylus went into. It was a 45 record though if I remember. I thought it was very clever. Peter.
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 2:20 am   #18
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Default Re: Strange record

spooky. this came up on another NG recently (message 18 onwards):

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...08487030584031
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 10:29 am   #19
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Default Re: Strange record

Quote:
Originally Posted by James B View Post
On a similar but more digital note, there are some CDs that have a hidden track before the disc starts. The only way to access it is to start the first track and then rewind, where the machine goes in to negative numbers. Pressing vinyl with multiple grooves must be costly though!
Off topic, but some Network DVDs are similar. While rewinding on selecting play one can often see countdown clocks that would't be seen on ordinary playback.

I don't think the double groove gimmick lasted very long. Must've been a nightmare aligning the cutting to achieve this!
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 11:10 am   #20
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Default Re: Strange record

It's all been said really, but these Puzzle Records were also known as Magic records by some people. They're not especially rare and can be found if you can be bothered rummaging through boxes of old records at markets, car boots etc.......if you know what to look for.
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