German 180 line TV standards. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Steve Anderson · 18th Jul 2009, 9:36 am

(Split from this thread; https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=42854 )

Gents,

Although a member for more than one year here I've posted little. My time has been predominately been taken up by NBTV activities and the associated forum. However some time back one of the members of said forum, (Dr. Zarkov, aka Volker), made reference to the German 180-line system which I was unaware of.

I was very interested as it's a nice stepping-stone between NBTV (in my case 32, 36, 48 and 72 lines) and 405. The same could also be said of the Baird 240-line system.

But there's precious little information to be had. I have the fundamentals, 180 lines, 25fps, no interlace and 5:4 aspect, slightly landscape. Left to right line scanning and top to bottom frame scanning. That's it.

If anyone has more data, especially the blanking and sync timings, both horizontal and vertical I would be most thankful. The sync to video ratio too.

If not I'll make a guess based on standards from that era up to say the 50s.

Now what I build is new, no restoration, there are others here whom I could never match. My things are industrial, agricultural and downright butt-ugly, (ask Steve Ostler) but I like think of interest. I use a mixture of valves/tubes and sand-state devices as takes my whim...and to a large degree what I can get.

So if anyone has more data on the German 180-line system beyond the above...please?

Steve A.

tubesrule · 18th Jul 2009, 1:31 pm

Hi Steve,
I have never found a timing drawing, but did find the information in a German text as follows:

180 lines, 25Hz, progressive
169 active lines, 11 blanking lines (1 broad pulse)
75:25 video:sync ratio
2.2us front porch, 20us line sync, 2.2us back porch (197.8us active line time)

If anyone would have an original timing diagram it would be Eckhard (yagosaga).

Hope this helps,
Darryl

Panrock · 18th Jul 2009, 3:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Anderson

My things are industrial, agricultural and downright butt-ugly, (ask Steve Ostler) but I like think of interest.

Well, since you mentioned me, I would say your NBTV projects are not ugly at all; they're all put together nicely and based on principles you have thoroughly thought out and understood. And of course several of my own projects wouldn't have performed as they do today without your help!

Back to 180 lines. I have some Wireless Worlds somewhere with off-screen pictures of the 1936 Berlin Olympics. As I recall Farnsworth cameras were used and the results looked somewhat 'smeary'.

Steve

peter_scott · 18th Jul 2009, 7:29 pm

Here's the Baird 240 line standard..

Peter

http://www.scottpeter.pwp.blueyonder...0line%20System

jimmc101 · 19th Jul 2009, 12:25 pm

I can't find any more details but these may be of interest.
Taken from 'Television Today' published circa 1935.
Sorry for the quality but I didn't want to risk the spine on a flatbed scanner.

Jim

Steve Anderson · 27th Jul 2009, 1:51 am

Thanks Gents,

That is exactly the information I was looking for! I have no idea as to when I'll get around to this, it seems every other day I add to my 'to do' list and this 180-line thing keeps getting pushed further and further down it. One day.

But now when the revolution does come I now have the data, thanks again.

Steve A.

18th Jul 2009, 9:36 am	#1
Steve Anderson Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 4	German 180 line TV standards. (Split from this thread; https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=42854 ) Gents, Although a member for more than one year here I've posted little. My time has been predominately been taken up by NBTV activities and the associated forum. However some time back one of the members of said forum, (Dr. Zarkov, aka Volker), made reference to the German 180-line system which I was unaware of. I was very interested as it's a nice stepping-stone between NBTV (in my case 32, 36, 48 and 72 lines) and 405. The same could also be said of the Baird 240-line system. But there's precious little information to be had. I have the fundamentals, 180 lines, 25fps, no interlace and 5:4 aspect, slightly landscape. Left to right line scanning and top to bottom frame scanning. That's it. If anyone has more data, especially the blanking and sync timings, both horizontal and vertical I would be most thankful. The sync to video ratio too. If not I'll make a guess based on standards from that era up to say the 50s. Now what I build is new, no restoration, there are others here whom I could never match. My things are industrial, agricultural and downright butt-ugly, (ask Steve Ostler) but I like think of interest. I use a mixture of valves/tubes and sand-state devices as takes my whim...and to a large degree what I can get. So if anyone has more data on the German 180-line system beyond the above...please? Steve A.

18th Jul 2009, 1:31 pm	#2
tubesrule Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Michigan USA Posts: 325	Re: German 180 line TV standards. Hi Steve, I have never found a timing drawing, but did find the information in a German text as follows: 180 lines, 25Hz, progressive 169 active lines, 11 blanking lines (1 broad pulse) 75:25 video:sync ratio 2.2us front porch, 20us line sync, 2.2us back porch (197.8us active line time) If anyone would have an original timing diagram it would be Eckhard (yagosaga). Hope this helps, Darryl

18th Jul 2009, 7:29 pm	#4
peter_scott Dekatron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 3,274	Re: German 180 line TV standards. Here's the Baird 240 line standard.. Peter http://www.scottpeter.pwp.blueyonder...0line%20System __________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk https://www.youtube.com/c/PeterScott/videos

27th Jul 2009, 1:51 am	#6
Steve Anderson Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 4	Re: German 180 line TV standards. Thanks Gents, That is exactly the information I was looking for! I have no idea as to when I'll get around to this, it seems every other day I add to my 'to do' list and this 180-line thing keeps getting pushed further and further down it. One day. But now when the revolution does come I now have the data, thanks again. Steve A.