Government review on Radio and Audio

[Aubade65]

With the recent announcement about the BBC licence fee not only being frozen but also being removed in 2027 then the BBC will be casting around for a source of revenue.
With the social media companies gobbling up the available advertising revenue, competing with ITV for a decreasing share of this revenue source would not seem to be viable.
The alternative would be an online subscription service that would also fund a limited on air public broadcasting service. Although the programme trailers have dropped any reference to DAB they are instead pushing the online services as the digital offering with some programme content only available online; i.e. the on air programme is a shortened version.
IMHO I do not think it would be the FM service that would be threatened by this move but DTV would be as these frequencies would find a ready buyer - there is already an agenda item at WRC23 to hand over all of the band 4 frequencies to mobile services.
So bearing in mind there is a rapid rollout of fibre broadband and 5G mobile in many countries I think that in 10 years time the broadcasting scene in the UK will look this -

The public broadcasting services will be moving to a subscription based streaming service - You Tube? Maybe an amalgamation of ITV and BBC since the social media companies will have taken most of the advertising revenue.

The DTV service will be shutting down and the frequencies auctioned off to the mobile companies

The satellite broadcasting service will be revived to provide a service to broadband and 5G notspots

and DAB being used for local radio .

In this type of scenario FM would be kept going for regional broadcasting and emergency use maybe funded by a levy on the social media companies. It does however beg the question of LW transmissions which assuming the government has some undeclared interest in maintaining would also be willing to continue to fund it - but then who would listening to as it is very difficult to find any radio (of any sort) that will cover LW. Maybe we have duty to keep these old radios going so that someone will still be listening to Droitwich

[G6Tanuki]

An interesting conjecture; I have always thought the long-term future for 'broadcast' is questionable, given the rise of streaming services [whether via some form of broadband wired-Internet service or 5G].

Even Sky - the original UK satellite-broadcasting business - has revealed its desire to move long-term to be more/entirely streaming-based.

The idea of 'linear' TV or radio, where you watch/listen to stuff in a sequence put together by program-planners and schedulers - is entirely alien to most under-50s [and also to a lot of the more-elderly - who are quite happy to binge-watch Silent Witness, Midsomer Murders or Downton Abbey on streaming-services in the same way as the under-fives do with Peppa Pig].

If there's still perceived to be a need for some kind of 'public service' broadcasting, the US 'PBS' model could be adopted - but I'm not really sure of the need (we don't have public-service newspaper/magazine-printing so why public-service broadcasting?) - and even if there is a need it could be on 5G/streaming.

Frequencies freed-up by ending terrestrial-TV could sensibly be used to provide 'infill' Internet access to those areas which are uneconomic/geographically-inappropriate to instal fibre-broadband [I have a friend who lives on an island...]; personally I wouldn't miss the end of classic terrestrial TV - or a slimming-down of FM transmissions. A "Pay £100 for a 10-year FM licence that lets you run 100 Watts from type-approved equipment to broadcast anything legal" could be the way forward - though for many of the current FM free-radio stations their illegality is part of the fun!

MW and LW are, IMHO, doomed to irrelevance. I can't get TalkSport on my phone except by streaming.

[Junk Box Nick]

I think there will some sort of hybrid listening for a long time yet. It was said years ago that books were doomed but plenty are still printed.

Frankly, though I seek out certain programmes, I often use the radio in the way I always did: for company. I turn it on and listen to what has been selected (within my taste range – for instance: I never listen to Radio One!) and it removes the decision making when I am, perhaps, dealing with some chore or pottering about, and if there is a bit of news and information it may keep me aware of what is going on. The radio is also straightforward: a couple of knobs to turn and beyond the initial investment nothing to pay to any provider other than a bit of electricity (I don’t often use the crystal set!). Perhaps this makes me appear a bit lazy but I am probably in good company. What has driven me more online is the removal from terrestrial radio much of the programming I used to enjoy.

Having said all that; 2027 is a long way off, there is no guarantee the same government will be in power, and if it is its personnel will probably be different by then. I suspect that the latest announcement is partly intended to deflect attention from other things but best leave that there...

[Gulliver]

Just an observation, but there seems to be a difference in the way people listen to radio compared to watching TV.

Radio is still very much a thing for cars, and only recent cars have DAB radios as standard....and from what I see the first generation of DAB car radios leave a lot to be desired. Unlike TV, it's not really feasible to simply add a twenty quid box to your existing radio and "upgrade" it to DAB.

DAB is just about good enough for car radios and portable sets that one might have in the kitchen....but try it on a proper hi-fi and it's an unmitigated disaster sonically. Not that stations like Heart would care, they only play about 100 songs total and are over use compression/limiting to the extent that it's painful. But the BBC stations still sound really good. I would seriously mourn the loss of Radios 2 and 3.

How many radios does the average house have? How many people still take a little pocket radio on a day trip, or camping? not everyone has one of those ruddy bluetooth speakers. In short, it's not just how many people theoretically own a DAB-capable device....but how many people will be inconvenienced if FM and/or AM are turned off? Maybe you have a shiny new DAB radio in the kitchen but the car and living room have FM? You're one of the millions tuning into DAB but you probably care more about FM.

Another poster pointed out the need to keep analogue radio in houses and cars in case of disasters and emergencies. In the event of some catastrophe, AM radio is *the* most reliable way to get messages to the populace.

the whole BBC funding thing is rather political. I blame Murdoch and his decades long battle against the BBC and to gain control/ownership of Sky. His propaganda has turned people against the license fee and even against Auntie altogether. If we lose the BBC, we shall never regain it. It is highly unlikely that the people currently pronouncing decisions on it's future will be in power when said decisions are actually made anyway...but we do need to be careful not to lose a unique public service broadcaster.

[Max Power]

IMO when the licence-fee is resigned to history at the end of the current charter; broadcasting radio on AM and FM (by the BBC) will end.

The BBC will have no option but to adopt a subscription model, and ofcourse, this requires control of their output, which is not possible via AM or FM radio.

I think a so-called 'BBC tax' added to broadband monthly charges would result in national outrage. (And rightly so)

BBC access will be internet only, and require a log-in by the user. The BBC will have no choice but to slash costs to compete with Netflix, and Amazon Prime, and suchlike
I understand a sub to Amazon and Netflix is cheaper than the BBC licence-fee per month (I subscribe to neither, so can't comment) And their content is obviously much more appealing to the millennial generation, who aren't remotely interested in the BBC, or BBC content.

[G6Tanuki]

I reckon the idea of "a radio" as a distinct physical device has had its day; cars have 'infotainment systems' that include satnav and phone-integration/mobile WiFi access-point - the 'radio' part is very much an adjunct; similarly the bedside clock-radio has been obsoleted this century by the 'dock' that plays your playlists from your phone while charging it, and the phone also does the alarm-clock functionality. Same applies to kitchens; the old grease-smeared 'trannie' in the corner doesn't really fit modern kitchen-aesthetics - being replaced by a docking/charging-station to take your iPhone, often Bluetoothing the signal to speakers mounted in the ceiling.... you can even get waterproof rechargeable Bluetooth-speakers to have in your bathroom... the need for "a radio" as a separate entity is minimal.

Then there are Amazon Echo Dots/Google Alexa smart-speakers - which were rather popular christmas gifts this year; I would guess that at least half the homes have at least one of these devices - while probably a similar number of homes do not have something they think of as 'a radio'.

[agardiner]

Interesting ongoing discussion here and obviously lots of thoughts and speculation about the BBC's future.

What I would say however, is the latest Rajar figures indicate that over 90% of the UK population listen to radio every week. Regardless of where and when, this is still incredible. Even Radio 5 Live enjoys nearly 3 million weekly listeners on its MW service (over 5 million in total) We live in uncertain times and climate change is causing more and more disruption. I think it is essential that we have at least one public service, traditional transmission broadcaster for emergencies!

[Glowing Bits!]

I'm not bothered if the BBC disappear, none of their material appeals to me and I can't say the rest for legal reasons!
It's unlikely the Droitwich mast will disappear any time soon, it's main use would be if we went to war again.

[Nuvistor]

Re post #44
If FM is, it’s a big if, turned off in 8 years time then 16 years old cars will probably have DAB radios, a 2014 car had a DAB radio, just a run of the mill car so I don’t see that as a problem.

How many radios does an average house have, very few I would think, radio in the kitchen and bedroom, no radio at all in the living room, seen that a few times.

Radio for disasters, yes but how many radios being sold have AM, most have DAB and FM.

I don’t doubt the possible high quality available from FM, I just wonder if it’s something many listeners care about.

2030 is a long way away, lots can change or even no change, down to money and what’s available. There will be a simple cost to deliver content per customer, if the cost is too great the service will be cut. Whether it be FM, DAB, streaming or radio over the TV channels, the accountants will hold sway.

[Junk Box Nick]

Clinging on I know but AM hasn’t gone yet.

One has to ask what would be the point in killing FM? Unlike TV DSO it’s not a case of by necessity having to redeploy the existing frequencies in a new way and I doubt commercial interests are desperate for the band.

A lot of these proposals are about stimulating sales of new stuff and stoking the economy. A lot of people do think FM will be turned of like the old TV. If I was into selling new kit (or seeing an economic advantage for doing so) I wouldn’t disabuse my potential buyers.

As for audio quality: outside of audiophiles and perhaps some of us on this forum the average Joe or Jane doesn’t care. Their discernment probably only goes as far as FM (or DAB) sounds better than AM because there’s no fading and fewer crackles. Outside of a circle such as this I can never remember a conversation about radio when someone has commented on the difference between FM and DAB audio – not even those who are regular orchestral concert goers.

I found out about low-quality acceptability in the industry in which I spent most of my working life. As new cheaper production techniques arrived we saw a marked drop in fidelity. High-end stuff looks better than ever but the quality of average stuff is frequently much worse and I often wince when I see it. Talking to old sweats the comment often comes up: “And we used to worry about XYZ...”. (And we really did – I had a few sleepless nights that I now realise were pointless.) For average Joe or Jane price comes first unless it is an item of visible status.

I would happily pay the current TV fee just for BBC radio and only three of them 4, 4 Extra and the World Service. As long as it is a programmed service, I do listen on demand sometimes but don't find it as good or reveal the things I wouldn't have thought to listen to. TV I can take or leave it, banal wallpaper most of it.

[agardiner]

Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell

I would happily pay the current TV fee just for BBC radio and only three of them 4, 4 Extra and the World Service. As long as it is a programmed service, I do listen on demand sometimes but don't find it as good or reveal the things I wouldn't have thought to listen to. TV I can take or leave it, banal wallpaper most of it.

With you there.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell

I would happily pay the current TV fee just for BBC radio and only three of them 4, 4 Extra and the World Service. .

The BBCWS is funded by a grant off the FCO [or whatever they are called these days?] paid out of general taxation, not only from the licence fee.

https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021...ervice-funding


Woldn't miss it myselfl same goes for the other BBC national radio channels.

The BBCWS is funded by a grant off the FCO

My desert island luxury would be the World Service (in stereo?) I don't think Desert Island Discs would allow a tunable radio. Back on topic, the World Service will be the last radio station to go, it is part of Britain for the world, having it is political but the content unbiased and interesting.

[agardiner]

Yes I agree with merlinmaxwell that the World Service would be the last to go. There is no way any British government would want the UK to be one of the only countries in the world without an international radio station.

However, whether they could force the BBC to pay for it if the licence fee went is another matter. It is only part funded by the government at present, so they would probably have to move back to full funding. And what about all the BBC World Service TV channels?

[Aubade65]

Post #50 raises the issue of ever decreasing prices of equipment with subsequent decrease in functionality but not only is there a big demand for iPhones at around £1000 a go there is also a willingness to fork out the same sum every few years with little if any improvement. Whilst there is a demand for basic functionality at minimum cost, there is also a desire to acquire the latest status symbol regardless of cost.

It should be remembered that we are dealing with the delivery mechanism here and not everywhere is able to access broadband or mobile phone signals which will probably be first choice for those who have access to it. For the rest the only viable media until satellite constellations with cheap portable groundstations are available (with attendant access costs), will be via radio with AM providing simple low cost transmission over a wide area (away from interference sources) and FM for more local quality transmissions
IMHO I do not think there is much future for media such as DAB which will always be a poor relation to internet based radio.

Maybe we will regress a hundred years when wavelengths over 200 metres where considered useless and given away.

[Radio Wrangler]

I thought it was wavelengths under 200m that were given away, at least until the recipients showed what could be done in that part of the spectrum?

David

I thought it was wavelengths under 200m that were given away

Indeed it was, until amateurs made them work and then they (us) had most of it nicked back.

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

The BBCWS is funded by a grant off the FCO [or whatever they are called these days?] paid out of general taxation, not only from the licence fee.

https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021...ervice-funding

That was a hard lesson learned, but I'm glad they learned it! Back in 2013/4, Overseas Broadcasting was to be funded by the BBC and not via Grant-in-Aid, and this was concomitant with the closure of Skelton and Rampisham HF transmitting stations. We at Skelton had managed, some years before, to get our electricity bill down to £1300 per day but cuts were still in order as the world political arena changed.

Given the relative stability of the world today, I doubt HF will ever get regurgitated here in the UK (other than what comes out of Woofferton, of course, and the overseas relays), even though it transcends political boundaries and jamming it directly and not the programme feeds requires time, money and effort.

[Junk Box Nick]

I didn’t realise that some funding from the Foreign Office had been regained for the World Service. In terms of content the English version took a dive when FCO money was removed and remains a mere shadow of its former self. I rarely listen now.

I mourn the demise of SW broadcasting.* Though a different environment from the days of the Cold War there are many oppressive and dangerous regimes in the world today and there’s nothing politicians like more than an information environment where access and content is controlled. China controls the internet very effectively.

With a short wave system all that is required is a receiver and, unless you choose to tell, no one knows you are listening.

There is the anecdotal story of Germans covertly listening to the BBC during WWII even though to be found out would likely result in a visit from the Gestapo. One family discovered that their neighbours were also listening to the BBC when their respective children had a conversation at school: “Oh, my parents were listening to that last night too...”

* Though, thankfully, we got much of the 40m ham band back I just occasionally miss the comedy programmes from Radio Tirana on 7.065MHz.