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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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3rd Mar 2020, 7:20 pm | #41 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Morden, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,552
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Recorded at Kingsway Recorders in...Kingsway - basement studio under an an office block - probably not there now.
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3rd Mar 2020, 9:25 pm | #42 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Not a method of creating pseudo-stereo as such, but one of the early contenders for stereo broadcast encoding, the Percival system used a single audio channel which was steered between left and right by a control signal derived from transient information. It didn't work either - it was capable of throwing standing listeners flat on their backs by disturbing the ears' balancing mechanism - those who weren't violently sick. The most comical episode was the attempted encoding of the start of the King's College Christmas service, where the boy soprano's reverberation confused the detection circuit and caused him to oscillate between left and right at up to 16Hz...
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3rd Mar 2020, 10:37 pm | #43 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Todmorden, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 870
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
At that time (1964) the studio was called De Lane Lea, which is quite famous in the annals of rock, as they also recorded the Rolling Stones in 1963 and Jimi Hendrix and the Beatles in 1967. At the time of "House of the rising sun" they had mono and two-track machines, so presumably the mono was used - it was cheaper.
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3rd Mar 2020, 11:36 pm | #44 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Todmorden, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 870
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Depends what you mean by 45s. There were lots of 45rpm stereo classical EPs issued on labels like Decca, HMV and Philips in the UK long before 1967. Remember that stereo on vinyl started in 1958 in the UK.
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4th Mar 2020, 12:32 am | #45 | |
Octode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 1,870
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
I understand that there is also quite a bit of research being carried out into separating out voices in a crowd - the fruits of which will hopefully spill over into more musical applications. |
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4th Mar 2020, 2:52 am | #46 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
Microgroove 33 RPM records were possible because vinyl was quieter than shellac. Here's a recording made in the 30's where the original 78 metal master has survived. In preparing it for rerelease on CD the engineers actually pressed a new vinyl 78 RPM disc from the original, to avoid extra noise buildup resulting from a shellac disc. Then they digitised that. https://youtu.be/2UgduNjnPOQ Last edited by TIMTAPE; 4th Mar 2020 at 2:58 am. |
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4th Mar 2020, 8:17 am | #47 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,704
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
YES! Mister speaker!
It seems I have encouraged some interest in I suppose early stereo recordings. In the latest age poll, we "mostly" fit into the late 50's, early 60's era, With apologies for those with far greater experience than I. I have a modest record collection and am somewhat of an audiophool, as I have admitted to many times previously. I have an almost MINT boxed set of "The Seekers" , "A world of their own". I broke the cellophane and played them for the first time. It's totally mono. I have "bragged" about my piddly little 6BW6 push/pull stereo that makes "7 watts RMS" on the test bench, with a tailwind, and it points downhill. Mono is in fact very little different to stereo, If it's in fact a GOOD recording that hasn't been flogged by record munchers, AKA the stackers from the 1950's, mono is as fine as stereo!!. My original post was in regard to a specific recording, that I was unaware of as being "rare" (Thanks Craig). On a fine summer evening, with eyes closed, a good mono recording does give up its secrets! At least , can hear the placement of the musicians in the recording. I cannot vouch for reverb of the various players, but I can hear their positions on stage/studio. I will state that this only works for "live" or full time recordings. It doesn't work for studio remix/rehack recordings. I am very happy and pleased that there are many of us "monophiles" still in existence. Joe |
4th Mar 2020, 9:38 am | #48 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winchester, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 636
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
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4th Mar 2020, 9:48 am | #49 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 3,315
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
I have an Elvis Presley LP on UK RCA label which was a re-issue of an original Mono LP and described as Electronically processed for stereo - at least I think that is what it said and the sound certainly is full of echo. Not pleasant to listen to when compared to the mono original.
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4th Mar 2020, 10:07 am | #50 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK.
Posts: 2,869
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
I also have a Mario Lanza LP which has had similar treatment. I much prefer the mono version.
This is very interesting reading, never realised how complicated it could be. John |
4th Mar 2020, 10:08 am | #51 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,302
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
The term I have seen most is "Electronically Re-Processed for Stereo". Thank goodness for the (rarely used) Mono-Stereo switching option on some amplfiers!
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Edward. |
4th Mar 2020, 10:20 am | #52 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK.
Posts: 646
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
The aim was to achieve a point source recording. The EMI demonstration disc SDD1 is a good example and the Beeching recording of Scherherezade ASD251. It is worthwhile seeking out good examples of the originals. Later "reprints" seem to be on lower quality vinyl. I think there are probably CD transfers around too.
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Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana |
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4th Mar 2020, 10:25 am | #53 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Several re-issues of classic albums on CD have the original mono and then the "stereo" versions (whatever that might mean) back-to-back as they fit quite neatly into the space available. Cynics might say that it caters for completists who will already have the original version! Examples are 'The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society' and Love's 'Forever Changes'. In both cases the mono version is superior IMHO.
Famously, of course, Phil Spector only recorded in mono in the Sixties (I hope you all are wearing your 'Back To Mono' button badges), though there are some reprocessed versions out there such as River Deep; Mountain High and A Christmas Gift to You, that I doubt had his approval. I'd be interested in knowing how his Seventies stereo recordings were made, such as Dion's 'Born to be With You' and the eccentric 'Death of a Ladies' Man' by Leonard Cohen (guns optional). The band Starsailor recorded a couple of tracks with him in the Nineties and said they were amazed he was still using his original, presumably mono, equipment. |
4th Mar 2020, 10:41 am | #54 |
Heptode
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West London, UK.
Posts: 865
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
The only record converted to stereo from mono that I have is "Manhattan Tower" by Gordon Jenkins which I bought in New York in 1967. I still have the record although like many others the LP can be heard on YouTube these days. The "stereo"works quite well with the orchestrations and sung and spoken dialogue.
John |
4th Mar 2020, 12:34 pm | #55 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
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4th Mar 2020, 1:13 pm | #56 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,786
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
It's true that there are no proper stereo mixes of the Christmas Album, which I think was done on only 3 tracks. |
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4th Mar 2020, 2:43 pm | #57 | |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Bognor Regis, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 2,288
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Quote:
Peter |
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4th Mar 2020, 3:08 pm | #58 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
Paul - thanks for that. Wonderful stuff - and showcases one of the greatest drummers in Hal Blaine.
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4th Mar 2020, 3:28 pm | #59 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
From Harvey Kubernik, co-owner of Gold Star Studios:
"Phil appreciated mono. But we did back up with multi-track. So, if he wanted to go back to the four track, he would. He never did, ‘cause if he didn’t hear it then it wasn’t right. When it came to multi-track you could put everything on mono. The bass drum, the guitars and keep it. Once you have it on mono, it never changes. It will be the same on Wednesday then the previous Tuesday, the same sound. So when you do transfer from one track to four tracks, it’s OK. And to that you can add voices, never losing the quality of the bass drum track, because it’s been transferred, it hasn’t been disturbed. You took the mono and transferred it to track one of a four track, tracks two, three and four are for voices and guitar fills. You follow? Everything is a fresh generation. It saves you from having to overdub four generations. You have less highs and less sibilance. And, we didn’t use pop filters and wind screens, we got mouth noises. Isn’t that life?" |
4th Mar 2020, 11:00 pm | #60 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
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Re: "Technically augmented stereo"
He's right but was limited to the tracks available at the time. Only a few years later 16 and 24 tracks became common so every track was first generation, and you could process each track individually. Premixing is by definition a limitation. Even today "unmixing" including stereo processing a mono track is only possible up to a point.
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