Unknown Shure Cartridge - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Bookman · 15th Feb 2018, 2:25 pm

I came across quite a splendid mix of cartridges etc this morning including an Ortofon 15EO MKII, Shure M75MB Type 2 + boxed N75-6 stylus, ADC QLM 36 MKIII and last but not least the separately photographed Shure with metallic body.
The latter would seem only to have the V as a description and the stylus is numbered 045671; does anyone have any further data on this item?
Will be trying them all out.
Thanks, Joe

audiomagpie · 15th Feb 2018, 2:39 pm

It's a Shure V15, a highly regarded top end moving magnet cartridge in its day, had (or indeed still has) a following, particularly in the USA. Originally released the year I was born (that'll keep you guessing) and available new until around the millennium.

There were various types or versions over time, because of the visible serial number I believe this to be the 'MR' version, which possibly was the final version..?

Bookman · 15th Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

Many thanks Greg, will give them a whiz next week.

D_S_J_R · 15th Feb 2018, 4:26 pm

The best way to identify is the size of the brass coloured stylus rear housing which slides into the body. The V15V and V15VMR had slightly larger rear housings, the replacement V15XMR? and I think the VST-V and current M97XE use thinner-section rear housings and a slightly different (less good) cartridge internals (a return to solid pole pieces I understand, where earlier V15's had laminated poles giving a flatter response - I think that's right. best to download as much info as you can. usually tracking at 1 or 1.2g with brush up and 1.5 - 1.7g with brush down...

Bookman · 15th Feb 2018, 8:44 pm

Thanks Dave,
The first thing I notice with the V, VMR & XMR is that the stylus shank (unknown nomenclature) i.e. the part that hold's the crystal consists of two different diameter aluminium miniature tubes. My particular item is singular and is extremely narrow in diameter. The more modern M97XE has only one diameter tube but would seem double if not treble the diameter my item.
Not sure of the dabs of paint either side of the needle either?
Note that pics are mouse scrollable & zoomable

joebog1 · 15th Feb 2018, 10:59 pm

Treat that with great care !!!! A new stylus, which is just generic ( at least I have not been able to source an original ) will still set you back about $100 US. I have two Shure V15's and they still sound delightful. To really obtain the best from them they need an SME 3009 arm, of which there are several models. ALL of which still command very high ( stupid ) prices.

Joe

Bookman · 16th Feb 2018, 9:46 am

Thanks Joe, however in my case I do have to proceed with a great deal of stealth on such issues. It would seem the strap lines used by others would suggest that they are similarly concerned?

Ted Kendall · 16th Feb 2018, 7:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiomagpie

because of the visible serial number I believe this to be the 'MR' version, which possibly was the final version..?

I bought a V15V almost as soon as they came out, and the first few styli I had were all indivudually numbered, so this does not necessarily indicate an MR. Damn fine cartridge, even so.

D_S_J_R · 16th Feb 2018, 7:26 pm

I need verification here, but as I understand it the V15's from III to original V and VMR (styli with larger section rear shanks) had laminated pole pieces in the body and a naturally flat response (to 10k in the IV and V and 20k on the III) when optimally loaded (a can of worms this need for extra capacitance). It appears the V15 VXMR, VST-V and M97X models (smaller cross section shanks) may have returned to the solid pole-piece in the coils and this makes for an hf suck-out which older models balanced with a corresponding peak. The 97XE has a gentle drop-off from 1kHz to -5db at 20khz which you hear as extra body and weight, rather than dullness as you do in a corresponding modern Grado Prestige Gold for example in my experience. Adding capacitance lifts the 10k level to flat, after which it rolls off to -5db again at 20k judging by reviews. Thing is, all the bodies look the same in basic visuals.

Bookman · 16th Feb 2018, 9:51 pm

Is there any literature on the forum that details the variables associated with stylus/cartridge design criteria and their corresponding boundary definition criteria be it from a proprietary or industrial standards point of view?

Ted Kendall · 16th Feb 2018, 10:24 pm

Not on the forum, but a good primer is Walton's book "Pickups-The Key to Hi Fi". Fifty years old, maybe, but the fundamentals are all there.

ho666es · 18th Feb 2018, 8:49 pm

Have to say I love my V15 MKIII in its SME 3009. I have had it since '76 and the latest stylus is the Jico Neosas. Gorgeous sounding cartridge

GP49000 · 25th Feb 2018, 8:07 am

Minor nit to pick but something that made the V15 Type V unique: the cantilever was not aluminium, but beryllium.

Craig Sawyers · 25th Feb 2018, 9:55 am

Yes it was. It was rolled out of flat beryllium shim stock around a tiny pin, in a jig. It was then put in a furnace to anneal and not just spring flat again. Then the overlap was glued.

US patent covering it is attached. But Shure lost the faith when CD's came out and scrapped all the gear for making them. So Shure were the first and last company to make stylus shanks out of thin-wall beryllium tube.

Craig

Tractorfan · 25th Feb 2018, 12:36 pm

Hi,
I bought this for a euro from a house clearance, but it had a different Shure cartridge in it.
However, it's a really fancy box, so I imagined the cartridge it was meant for must have been pretty special. And it was!
Cheers, Pete.

Ted Kendall · 25th Feb 2018, 9:37 pm

The V15/3 was greeted with cries of joy at the time - Bert Webb, who did most of the cartridge reviews for Hi Fi News at the time, and who later brought the Entre 1 into this country, simply said " if you know a better cartridge than this, buy it. I don't."

Predictably, the backlash wasn't long in coming, a lot of it based on sour grapes and the logical falsehood that tracking wasn't necessary for a cartridge to sound good. Faultless it may not have been - what pickup is? - but it approached the ideal more closely than most others, before or since and at any price. One of the few which improved upon it was the V15/V - I bought a V15/4 and was disappointed - the sound didn't gel in the way the 3 did. The V sang, and continues to sing, sweetly.

joebog1 · 26th Feb 2018, 1:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

So Shure were the first and last company to make stylus shanks out of thin-wall beryllium tube.
Unquote

Try looking up a firm called Micro Acoustics !! They produced two cartridges!!
Ma 2002 and Ma 530 BOTH are electret condenser carts, with power for the condenser derived from the signal itself. BOTH of these carts used thinwall Beryllium tube!!!! They were wonderful carts and were at least equal to the Shure. They could track down to half a gram WITHOUT mistracking.

I owned both in the early 80's, and were used on a Micro Seiki DD20 turntable, which also had an arm at LEAST the equal of an SME 3009. Tracking could be adjusted while playing a record. with a precision spring inside the arm tube, and connected to the adjustment knob by a very fine tungsten wire. It did have a counterweight, but that was purely for neutralising the weight of any cartridge fitted.

two bobs' worth

Joe

Craig Sawyers · 28th Feb 2018, 8:20 pm

I must admit that I had never heard of Micro Acoustics. Courtesy of Google their premier electret cartridge, the 830CSA in 1984 was USD335. That of course translates to £335, and RPI has done a factor of 3 since then - so call it £1k in today's money. Sizable sum, but not outrageous as compared with some of today's offerings, which can be £10k and upwards.

15th Feb 2018, 2:25 pm	#1
Bookman Hexode Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Taunton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 318	Unknown Shure Cartridge I came across quite a splendid mix of cartridges etc this morning including an Ortofon 15EO MKII, Shure M75MB Type 2 + boxed N75-6 stylus, ADC QLM 36 MKIII and last but not least the separately photographed Shure with metallic body. The latter would seem only to have the V as a description and the stylus is numbered 045671; does anyone have any further data on this item? Will be trying them all out. Thanks, Joe Attached Thumbnails

15th Feb 2018, 2:39 pm	#2
audiomagpie Heptode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire, UK. Posts: 824	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge It's a Shure V15, a highly regarded top end moving magnet cartridge in its day, had (or indeed still has) a following, particularly in the USA. Originally released the year I was born (that'll keep you guessing) and available new until around the millennium. There were various types or versions over time, because of the visible serial number I believe this to be the 'MR' version, which possibly was the final version..? __________________ Greg BVWS committee chairman Last edited by audiomagpie; 15th Feb 2018 at 3:01 pm.

15th Feb 2018, 4:20 pm	#3
Bookman Hexode Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Taunton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 318	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Many thanks Greg, will give them a whiz next week.

15th Feb 2018, 4:26 pm	#4
D_S_J_R Heptode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Suffolk Coastal, UK. Posts: 603	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge The best way to identify is the size of the brass coloured stylus rear housing which slides into the body. The V15V and V15VMR had slightly larger rear housings, the replacement V15XMR? and I think the VST-V and current M97XE use thinner-section rear housings and a slightly different (less good) cartridge internals (a return to solid pole pieces I understand, where earlier V15's had laminated poles giving a flatter response - I think that's right. best to download as much info as you can. usually tracking at 1 or 1.2g with brush up and 1.5 - 1.7g with brush down... __________________ Best wishes, Dave

15th Feb 2018, 8:44 pm	#5
Bookman Hexode Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Taunton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 318	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Thanks Dave, The first thing I notice with the V, VMR & XMR is that the stylus shank (unknown nomenclature) i.e. the part that hold's the crystal consists of two different diameter aluminium miniature tubes. My particular item is singular and is extremely narrow in diameter. The more modern M97XE has only one diameter tube but would seem double if not treble the diameter my item. Not sure of the dabs of paint either side of the needle either? Note that pics are mouse scrollable & zoomable Attached Thumbnails

15th Feb 2018, 10:59 pm	#6
joebog1 Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia Posts: 2,704	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Treat that with great care !!!! A new stylus, which is just generic ( at least I have not been able to source an original ) will still set you back about $100 US. I have two Shure V15's and they still sound delightful. To really obtain the best from them they need an SME 3009 arm, of which there are several models. ALL of which still command very high ( stupid ) prices. Joe

16th Feb 2018, 9:46 am	#7
Bookman Hexode Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Taunton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 318	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Thanks Joe, however in my case I do have to proceed with a great deal of stealth on such issues. It would seem the strap lines used by others would suggest that they are similarly concerned?

16th Feb 2018, 7:26 pm	#9
D_S_J_R Heptode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Suffolk Coastal, UK. Posts: 603	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge I need verification here, but as I understand it the V15's from III to original V and VMR (styli with larger section rear shanks) had laminated pole pieces in the body and a naturally flat response (to 10k in the IV and V and 20k on the III) when optimally loaded (a can of worms this need for extra capacitance). It appears the V15 VXMR, VST-V and M97X models (smaller cross section shanks) may have returned to the solid pole-piece in the coils and this makes for an hf suck-out which older models balanced with a corresponding peak. The 97XE has a gentle drop-off from 1kHz to -5db at 20khz which you hear as extra body and weight, rather than dullness as you do in a corresponding modern Grado Prestige Gold for example in my experience. Adding capacitance lifts the 10k level to flat, after which it rolls off to -5db again at 20k judging by reviews. Thing is, all the bodies look the same in basic visuals. __________________ Best wishes, Dave

16th Feb 2018, 9:51 pm	#10
Bookman Hexode Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Taunton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 318	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Is there any literature on the forum that details the variables associated with stylus/cartridge design criteria and their corresponding boundary definition criteria be it from a proprietary or industrial standards point of view?

16th Feb 2018, 10:24 pm	#11
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,670	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Not on the forum, but a good primer is Walton's book "Pickups-The Key to Hi Fi". Fifty years old, maybe, but the fundamentals are all there.

18th Feb 2018, 8:49 pm	#12
ho666es Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK. Posts: 4	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Have to say I love my V15 MKIII in its SME 3009. I have had it since '76 and the latest stylus is the Jico Neosas. Gorgeous sounding cartridge

25th Feb 2018, 8:07 am	#13
GP49000 Hexode Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sonoma County, California, USA. Posts: 405	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Minor nit to pick but something that made the V15 Type V unique: the cantilever was not aluminium, but beryllium.

25th Feb 2018, 12:36 pm	#15
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,183	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge Hi, I bought this for a euro from a house clearance, but it had a different Shure cartridge in it. However, it's a really fancy box, so I imagined the cartridge it was meant for must have been pretty special. And it was! Cheers, Pete. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

25th Feb 2018, 9:37 pm	#16
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,670	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge The V15/3 was greeted with cries of joy at the time - Bert Webb, who did most of the cartridge reviews for Hi Fi News at the time, and who later brought the Entre 1 into this country, simply said " if you know a better cartridge than this, buy it. I don't." Predictably, the backlash wasn't long in coming, a lot of it based on sour grapes and the logical falsehood that tracking wasn't necessary for a cartridge to sound good. Faultless it may not have been - what pickup is? - but it approached the ideal more closely than most others, before or since and at any price. One of the few which improved upon it was the V15/V - I bought a V15/4 and was disappointed - the sound didn't gel in the way the 3 did. The V sang, and continues to sing, sweetly.

28th Feb 2018, 8:20 pm	#18
Craig Sawyers Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 4,980	Re: Unknown Shure Cartridge I must admit that I had never heard of Micro Acoustics. Courtesy of Google their premier electret cartridge, the 830CSA in 1984 was USD335. That of course translates to £335, and RPI has done a factor of 3 since then - so call it £1k in today's money. Sizable sum, but not outrageous as compared with some of today's offerings, which can be £10k and upwards.