HMV Record deck problems

[Newgirl2013]

Please can anyone help
I'm having problems with this vintage HMV Record deck
The motor capacitors have been replaced and now the turntable turns ok
The records drop ok but that is all
The autochange mechanism refuses to work
I can put the pick up at the start of the record but at the end the auto doesn't work
All the auto mechanism has been cleaned and serviced
I can't find any info or spares
Any ideas?

[Heatercathodeshort]

I think this may be your problem. The decks auto cycle is driven by a toothed rubber belt affair. The surface of this has probably disintegrated. We have one in an HMV 1902 tele radiogram at the museum.
It was a good while back but I seem to remember cutting thousands of grooves in a replicated drive rubber with a craft knife. It still works well. I wish I could be more specific. John.

[julie_m]

If the toothed belt has had it, you might get lucky robbing one from an old printer. You would have to make a clean splice on the outside somehow; but where there's a will, there's usually a way.

[Newgirl2013]

Apparently the auto mechanism works when it feels like it

[Edward Huggins]

Your Post #4 conflicts with your Post #1. Does this mean you have worked on it in the meantime and it is now intermittently working?

[Newgirl2013]

Hi Edward
When I first got the deck the motor wasn't running at all
A friend replaced the motor capacitors cleaned and overhauled the mechanism as far as he could
However he can't get the auto mechanism to work correctly
Hope that clarifies the situation

[Edward Huggins]

I can't advise you specifically on this deck as I've never woked on one. It's from the early 1950s and will need a specialist repairer. It depends how important it is for you ro have the auto functions fully working. If originality is not important, there are (in my opinion) far better Autochanger options from other makers.

[Newgirl2013]

Hi Edward
Yes I would like to get this one working correctly
Sharon

[Techman]

Hi Sharon,
I'm afraid I'm going to have to be very honest with you regarding this deck because I have actually worked on them in the past and hopefully you'll prove me wrong, but these decks are a dead loss. They're made by EMI, so they're an 'own brand' mechanism and nothing like BSR or Garrard. The drive with the 'belt' that's mentioned isn't a complete belt at all, but from memory (it's been years since I worked on one) it's a sort of Bakelite wheel with a thick piece of specially shaped rubber that goes part way round it and is fitted tightly into a groove and has a sort of 'lug' at one end. I seem to remember turning this rubber semi circular drive piece inside out to expose a new surface, but how I got round the locating lug part I can't remember. There's actually a service manual from what I remember available from the link 'up top' for £1.99, but from memory it wasn't written for faults that would be encountered 70 years into the future, so you may not learn very much from it. The pickup head is also a problem on these, as it's a bit unconventional in its construction and is usually of very low resistance and needs to be run through a special step up transformer to obtain any usable output, but at least this means that the thick coil wire is not likely to be open circuit. If you don't dismantle the head and replace any hard rubber parts it will ruin any records played with it and sound weak and awful at the same time.

There's a few past threads regarding this deck if you use the forum search button at the top. One thread was where the person found that rubber part on the drive completely gone and just a semi circular ring of dust below it on the bottom of the cabinet, so if you've got rubber in place, then you're one step ahead - for the moment, anyway.

[Newgirl2013]

Hi Techman
Thanks for the info
From what I've seen the rubber seems to be in one piece
The Pickup seems to be working fine
However, I have found these pickups to be very delicate
One drop with a needle in and there goes the needle armature
As I say there is no problem with the pickup, in any case I have plenty of spare pickups
When I get a spare minute I'll have another look and check the rubber
thanks again
Sharon

[Techman]

Yes, that rubber part only drives the autochanger mechanism, but it's not a good design like the BSR and Garrards.

You're lucky the top part of the record spindle is still in place as these often get removed and lost.

On some of those models, the pickup head actually rotates so that it makes it more convenient and easy to change the needle, which is held in place by both magnetic and friction with a rubber piece which protrudes through a small slot in the armature. If it's the low impedance pickup head (only an ohm or two), then there'll be a small transformer bobbin type thing somewhere underneath for matching it to the amplifier.

[Newgirl2013]

Yes the transformer is mounted on the bottom of the cabinet
It's giving a very good output into my amplifier
I have been looking on the Forum but can find no reference to this deck
I also have two spare spindle tops for these decks

[Techman]

The threads are definitely there. I think it depends on what you type in the search box and maybe whether you're using a phone or sitting at a proper computer to do the search - I always use a proper computer. The decks were probably marketed under HMV, Columbia and possibly EMI brands and would have been used in these various makes of grams etc.

You do realise that you can't use conventional gramophone needles in these decks? They're a special short, soft tone long playing type that came in packets of ten, because with it being an autochanger, a single play needle would only play one record side (possibly two) properly and then ruin all the others on the stack. Also, normal needles are too long and will flap about and cause damage to the armature.

[Newgirl2013]

I use a proper PC
I'll check HMV EMI or Columbia grams
I use Columbia 99 Needles, HMV Magic Stylus or Portagram Needles

[Techman]

Those are the correct needles, so you shouldn't have any problems associated with those. I think that the first models of that deck just relied on magnetism to hold steel needles in place, but with the advent of some special non-ferrous 'stylus' types, the armature had to be modified during production to allow friction as well as magnetism to hold them in place, there was possibly a vibration problem with the original magnetism only method, too. Interestingly, I seem to remember that the manual doesn't show this later pickup design, and that's the one that all decks seem to have, so not much use when coming to repair one.

[Newgirl2013]

I would be interested in obtaining the service manual for the deck but can't find the link
Regarding the deck, I'm a girl who refuses to be beaten
I'd like to get it working no matter what
I don't give up easily

[Techman]

It's good to hear of your enthusiasm and interest in getting this deck running properly. You can probably gather from what I've said that I don't particularly like this model, although I think they're an interesting artifact from the period, but not a unit for regular use - I prefer Garrards.

I had a look at the manuals link and from memory it's either or both the HMV 45000 or HMV 47200 that covers it. I can't remember exactly which is the correct manual, as the one I've seen originally didn't come from up there, but may have been with a deck I was asked to look at by someone years ago. They're all listed in alphabetical order in the instant downloads section.

[Newgirl2013]

Yes I gathered that you don't like the deck
I am a collector of Autochangers
I have Garrard RC 70s and Collaro RC500
Please don't mention BSR decks, YUK!!
I don't like them, cheap and nasty
However that is my opinion
I have the other HMV Autochanger, the one with two push buttons
That one works perfectly
I'll check out those Manuals
Believe me, I'll get it working if it's the last thing I do

[Techman]

I used to be the same regarding the BSR decks, and there's certainly some truth in what you say. However, time has proved that those old BSR autochangers have given long and reliable service to their owners over many decades - although I take your point.

[Newgirl2013]

You're not going to believe this
At the BSR Works some of the top of the range Garrards were made

I wish I could get hold of either a Garrard 301 or 401 but on Ebay they are fetching silly money