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Old 1st Dec 2010, 5:53 pm   #21
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

As that was one of our first sets when I started work (the TV+FM version) I have a high regard for them - they're a damn good chassis once you've sorted the LOPTx and de-Hunted it.
I'll pop over and have a look, Col, when I can get out!
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 6:24 pm   #22
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Hi,

Oh dear I'm in trouble; I'm already informed restoring TV's is addictive and now I have my friend Mike breathing down my neck so I can't back out or hide the set now. One consolation though is that if I visit Mike he will forget about this Ekco as we will soon become engrossed in all things clocks.

Thanks Mike and you are most welcome any time; please give Toby a cuddle for me and very best wishes to Joyce.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 6:31 pm   #23
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

I've just brought it in from the garage. Managed not to drop it while walking across the snow. You'll be glad to know that it looks no worse under decent lighting.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 6:51 pm   #24
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Hi Jeffrey,

Thanks for that; it might look better if you turn out the lights?

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 1:36 pm   #25
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Hi,

If I may be allowed to ramble I’d like to add a number of observations concerning where this thread is going both on and off forum.

Its only about a week or so ago that I had absolutely no interest in TV; never wishing to restore or work on one and in fact I have a great urge to throw our own TV into a skip given the amount of rubbish now shown on it. Right at the start of this thread I clearly made my intention clear regarding Danny’s GEC saying what a wonderful project it would be to restore this cabinet.

I was delighted to see the thread suddenly come alive with interest to such an extent that I’ve now bought the Ekco kindly offered by Jeffrey. Once again I was drawn towards the terrible state of the cabinet and expressed my thoughts as to if I was successful in restoring such a cabinet that I would then be happy to pass the set on to another member who could restore the set into working order which at the end of the day is what we all ultimately would like to see.

Last night I received a message from a very good friend with my interests at heart advising caution as he felt I was being drawn along by fellow member’s enthusiasm and that perhaps I was being encouraged to work on the TV chassis when in fact I had expressed my opinion that I wasn’t interested in doing such work. Of course my friend is totally correct and I admit to being drawn into considering having a go at repairing the chassis. I’ve thanked my friend for his concern but assuming if (and it is a big if) that I can restore the cabinet why shouldn’t I get drawn along into tackling the chassis after all this is what this forum is about; to encourage such endeavours?

This forum is doing as intended; members have not only encouraged me into trying something new but also done the right thing in pointing out the dangers and problems I’ll face; Jeffrey has already very kindly sent me lots of information and the posts are also full of excellent suggestions; all I’ve ever received is kindness and help and if I am indeed being drawn into restoring the complete set then all I can say is bring it on. Steve has even offered to collect the set for me weather permitting even if he does end up with a thick ear; how good is that?

Many members are extremely expert in their chosen field and concentrate solely on this but I love to experiment and try something different; I also want to improve not only in the quality of the finished article but in my methods and this is why such cabinets as these are so appealing to me; over the last few years I’ve learnt the basics of cabinet work such as scraping; veneering and French polishing but I want to really push myself to see what I can achieve and I’m happy to share my stories along the way.

Is it really so bad for members to encourage me to tackle a TV chassis; I think not and yes I’ve been drawn in but I’m also looking forward to getting my hands dirty. One thing leads to another and I believe I’m correct in thinking that TV technology also covers Oscilloscopes?

I’ve received many welcome messages off forum; last night I received a PM from a member saying he is following this thread with interest and although he doesn’t feel up to tackling such a project as this he wishes me well and went on to very generously offer me free replacement valves should I need them whilst restoring the chassis; even if I don’t need the valves such an offer is highly appreciated and proves there are some good genuine people around who are willing to give so unselfishly; thank you to this member. I also receive quite a few requests asking if I would care to take on paid cabinet work because these members are excellent at restoring a chassis but find cabinetwork is too daunting. I sadly decline such requests although I am flattered to think members would trust me with such work.

Examples of my cabinet work are shown on this forum and in the Bulletin but I still consider myself to be very much a novice with a great deal yet to learn; cabinet work is difficult but with practice and patience I’m becoming more proficient with the various stages involved and cabinets such as Danny’s GEC or this Ekco are ideal to practice on because it would be difficult to cause further damage. I do make many mistakes and these are unseen so please don’t think I get everything right all the time.

I’m not sure if it would be allowed but I would be happy (or stupid) enough to stick my neck out and add a thread showing work in progress on this single Ekco TV?

Many thanks to everyone for all you help and encouragement.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 4:07 pm   #26
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Hello Col,
I was slightly concerned that you had chosen a rather battered example of the Ekco series to start your telly restoration but Jeffrey informs me that the chassis is reasonable so knowing these receivers well there should be little difficulty in getting it working. The cabinet will be a challenge but something tells me you might actually enjoy the project! Golden rule, just remove all loose dust and debris with a vacuum cleaner, disturbing it with a small paint brush. Do not over clean as this will no doubt introduce faults that may be difficult to trace and is unnecessary until you have 'first light' on the screen. The chassis is a reliable one with sensible valves that should all be O.K. The only weak spot is the LOPT case and the U25 rectifier valve within it but that is not of concern at the moment. Good luck with it.
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 4:10 pm   #27
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

I'll try to dig out a new U25 to include with the set. I've sent Col all my notes and hi-res photos on the LOPT rebuild.
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Old 3rd Dec 2010, 12:22 pm   #28
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Hi John, Thanks for your concern and cleaning advice; normally I take a chassis into the garage and blow it of with a powerful compressor airline so heeding your advice I'll treat this chassis more gently.

Thanks Jeffrey the U25 will be useful and is appreciated.

I was very pleased to receive a PM from a member offering me some excellent advice well worth passing on to other TV novices such as me. This refers to my mentioning a scope and the suggestion is to build my own scope either valve or transistor using readily available parts such as a VR97 6" dia tube.

I find this kind of information invaluable; it is so easily taken for granted by members used to such work but for a raw beginner like me it forms the foundation of building blocks and after assembling such a scope transition to TV restoration could be the next step. Thank you to the member for sending the PM.

I already own two fully working scopes and signal generators but need to learn how to use them correctly.

My friend Dominic Beesley has only just seen this thread and contacted me with a kind offer of help. Dom also offered more basic advice informing me if I have an RF signal generator that I could make patterns on the TV screen and went on to say he would be happy to pop over and loan me his Aurora once I was ready. Thanks for this Dom you are a star.

I haven't even got the Ekco home yet and already I'm learning a great deal and in a strange way I feel rather comfortable with the idea of tackling the complete set.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 3rd Dec 2010, 12:41 pm   #29
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

I'll stow the spare U25 somewhere safe inside the set.

If you're going to use a scope on the set the correct safe procedure is to run the set from an isolating transformer. Otherwise you'll be connecting neutral to earth which is not a good idea. The alternative of lifting the earth connection to the scope cannot be recommended even if many of us have done it. There's a lot of stuff in the forum about safe working on live chassis sets. I presume you've done it on radios, TVs are no different except you are more likely to want to use a scope.

You can do many jobs on a set like this without a scope. Old time service guys rarely used one, not many even had one until colour came along. Personally I like using a scope but I'm really a design engineer, not a service guy.

I wouldn't bother building a scope unless you're really keen. Decent scopes are readily available at low cost and you already have some. A simple dual trace instrument with at least 10MHz bandwidth is ideal.

Reinforcing the safety messages because we don't like losing members. If you are safe and confident with live chassis radios then you're 90% of the way there. The remaining danger points:
  • Don't smash the CRT. The A&E staff will not be amused. They might wonder why you've been in a rather bad fight in a bar.
  • The LOP top caps and EHT will sting unpleasantly if you touch them and can jump out to bite. Not much current available so not particularly harmful unless you jump back and hit your head on something.
  • The boost voltage can be in the 500V to 600V DC range. It's only on a few points in the LOP section but is more dangerous than EHT, mains or HT. There's enough current available to do damage.
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Old 3rd Dec 2010, 4:46 pm   #30
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

A few stock faults with the Ekco 'linked chassis' series.

Mains filter capacitor mounted on the back of the voltage selector panel.

LOPT 'plastic' case burned. Looks terrible but the windings will be O.K. New case can be fabricated from any good quality plastic/fibreglass/Paxolin sheet.

EHT .001uf 20kv 'VISCONOL' capacitor leaking. [Not fitted on dagged, coated tube models]

Low general contrast caused by leaky vision detector diode mounted under clipped top on final vision I.F. transformer.

No frame sync. O/C Q3/4 frame clipper diode. [Looks like a fat resistor]

All wax capacitors will need replacement including the one INSIDE the turret tuner.

Screen decoupling capacitors that look like resistor's with rounded ends, same colour code. These will all require replacement particularly the ones connected to pin 8 of the 30F5 valves. Usually 3000pf but any value around 1000pf to 4700pf is fine.

U191 boost diode overheating. Very strained line whistle. Check the line linearity coil has not slipped down its former and is shorting to chassis. It's mounted on the back of the lopt panel behind the rotatable magnet.

Models with F.M. radio. Blown PY32/33 rectifier heater. warning! Do not replace until you have checked the radio/tv trombone switch for burnt contacts..

To remove the front knobs, unclip the wire rings securing the knob outers and unclip the outer rings. Chassis can then be removed with knobs complete after removing centre screw from side panel. [This must be a plastic screw, due to live chassis]

This should cover most stock faults. The mains dropper and wound components are of excellent quality.

Hope this gets you started. John.
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Old 3rd Dec 2010, 6:20 pm   #31
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Hi,

WOW; by the time this Ekco arrives I'll be a fully blown TV engineer at this rate. Thanks both Jeffrey and John for this information and I now know what to look out for; everything will become clearer once I actually start to do the restoration.

Jeffrey and I have also been exchanging emails; I find that I'm not the absolute novice that I thought I was because I've been having a brief look at at an Ekco TV circuit diagram and find the majority of the components run at similar voltages to a normal vintage radio; I can use my existing multimeter for many of the voltage checks and even checking voltages on the valve pins looks similar to radio work apart from the rectifier valve which on the circuit I looked at runs 16KV.

I was rather concerned about the missing safety shield as this is new to me but Jeffrey kindly explained I have a number of options to choose from these being safety glass either laminated or toughened and Acrylic or Perspex sheeting. I'll go for glass and it is cheap enough from our local supplier; I'll possibly select laminated as this can be cut to size whilst I wait; toughened glass has to be ordered specially to size.


I'll tackle the cabinet restoration first and give it my best shot but I also have a plan "B", make a new cabinet as a very last resort. I have a mains isolation transformer and hopefully my story will be better than a hot milky drink at night to put you to sleep.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 4:11 pm   #32
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Hi,

This Ekco T311 is now sitting on my bench in the garage but at the moment it is too cold to play around with it.

Thanks Jeffrey; I found the U25 tucked inside the cabinet safely. I've already sprayed the cabinet with powerful flea spray (Indorex) just in case there is still any woodworm activity; I've then covered all the holes with masking tape in the hope that any signs of life will be seen as holes in the tape; I'm watching this on a daily basis.

This must be about the roughest TV set on the planet outside a council tip. I've had a quick look at the cabinet and it appears to be constructed of nothing more than common birch ply finished in thick brown treacle. The two sides are 7/8" thick and the outer layer of ply is badly de-laminating; this outer layer measures 1.04mm thick and is possibly just the outer skin of the plywood. The top panel curved at the front appears to have a very thin veneer equally as drab as the sides and this is worn through on the front curve. The finish? well I can't call it a finish because it is so rough.

The edges and faces of the side panels are riddled with worm holes making it look like it's been shot with a 12 bore at close range.

It's possible the chassis will eventually clean up once I've removed all the dirt and grime with a JCB.

What a truly wonderful challenge this will be once I can get it into the workshop and work in comfort; it's a brilliant Christmas present to me from Bronwyn who is also buying me an Aurora from our friend Dominic Beesley in the New Year as Dom is upgrading. A good dose of global warming would be most welcome.

I'm not in a hurry and expect this restoration to take quite a while if in fact I can do it at all; I have an abundance of determination and patience but will this prove enough.

Thanks once again to everyone for your help and encouragement.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 7:14 pm   #33
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An excellent set these. My parents had one which gave sterling service right up to the 405 switch off.

I will watch the restoration with great interest.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 9:36 pm   #34
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Yes, indeed, an fine set. I used to buy and repair ex-rental sets (at £1.00 each) as a kid, and went through a wide variety, but kept one of these Ekcos for a few years for my own use. I particularly liked the option of radio - the sound seemed to have a special magic not present in straightforward radio receivers!
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 9:46 pm   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired View Post
I've then covered all the holes with masking tape in the hope that any signs of life will be seen as holes in the tape; I'm watching this on a daily basis.
Hi Col,

It's very unlikely you'd see any at this time of year. Adult beetles emerge mainly between May and August.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 4:58 pm   #36
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Hi,

Thanks guys it sounds like I've got the makings of a good set with a lot of TLC.

Oh dear Ian; I hope I don't fully restore the cabinet only to have it ventilated with worm holes if ever the sun comes out? I'll keep blasting it with worm killer and hope there are no live eggs still buried.

I'm keen to get cracking with this TV but have had a spot of bother whilst trying to clear my Bush SUG43 chassis off the bench. The O/P transformer needed a rewind so finally with temperatures above freezing yesterday I went into the workshop for the first time in ages and was soon feeling cosy but absolutely nothing went to plan.

A friend suggested using my Aumann coil winders for the rewind saying it would possibly make an interesting story so I pulled one of the winders out together with foot speed control and set everything up; the winder fired up and was working well so I decided to take a few pictures and draped a bed sheet to the back of it. After taking the pictures and removing the sheet the winder refused to start; an hour later I pulled out my second Aumann winder and again this one also refused to start so now I've got two dead winders.

With both Aumann winders put away I pulled out my trusty manual AVO Douglas winder and set it up; now the large bobbin of new winding wire decided to fall out with me as it was tangled and took another hour before I could actually start winding. Finally the winding was done just leaving the outer insulation to add and then to rebuild.

I've just been in the garage and sprayed the transformer bits in gloss black acrylic having previously under coated them; I washed the car whilst the paint dried but when I looked at the bits the paint had bloomed.

Just to add to the fun when I tried to download the pictures from my camera the computer crashed and now refuses to talk to the camera. It's easy looking at all the wonderful restorations shown on the forum but I wonder how many members suffer such problems that are never seen?

I'm sick of this climate but someday I will make a start on this TV.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 6:12 pm   #37
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Hi Col.
Well you are not alone, your day sounds like everyday here.
I am sure though tomorrow will be fine, everything will fall into place.
Because I am out of work at the moment I have a little more time to do things but my list instead of getting smaller just seems to enlarge every day, I now have the two Philips T-Vettes from Tazman, that caused a bit nagging as I was scrubbing them in the bath!
Good luck with the Ekco, hope to see the success story by Tuesday.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 9:44 pm   #38
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You didn't say which Tuesday


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Old 12th Dec 2010, 9:58 pm   #39
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Hi,

Nice one Brian but not only which Tuesday but which year?

Good luck on the job front Trevor and I can sympathize with your lack of time once you are home every day; I wasn't told when I retired that days shrank and there were only six months in a year. I find summer is the worst because if I blink I miss it.

I've been cheeky this afternoon because I've emailed a large local company who use lots of veneer to ask if they send veneer off cuts to landfill and if so could I please have some? I think it's called initiative.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 10:38 pm   #40
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Wonderful!!!
Initiative, well we should all be cheeky for things like that.
Oh I meant THIS Tuesday
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