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Old 29th Mar 2011, 12:30 am   #21
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Thumbs up Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Thank you, Graham.

The information that is contained in that Site is quite staggering! A tremendous amount of work has obviously gone into that Site; it is truly comprehensive.

Al.
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 8:23 am   #22
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

It is two of the 3 letters of the company name and has a nice ring to it...we are talking marketing here, you might be looking too deeply!
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 9:43 am   #23
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Post Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Yes, indeed PJL ~ that thought did cross my mind.

Al.
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 11:31 am   #24
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

I like the story that the AR77 was the Amateur Radio 77. It was advertised in ham/amateur radio publications. Its successor was to have been the AR88 for amateur use, but with the coming of WW2 it was redesigned for military use.

Look at the brochures on this page:-

http://www.qsl.net/w/w2vtm//88/

A price is quoted for the AR77 which points to it being intended for amateur used. There's no doubt as to whom the AR88 was intended for.
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 1:11 pm   #25
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Thanks for all that extra info Graham. The low loss polystyrene was obviously a big selling point. The Western Museum site you and others flag up is very detailed but so much so it continues to baffle me a bit!

My less than pristine 88 is a bit of an "enigma" [Bletchley joke]. As far as I can see it's a standard D model ie it's in an [original?] case [rusty] and covers the 540k-32 megs range. It has just the standard controls and none of the extra ones down below seen on some models on the Western front [sorry]. It does indeed firmly say on that site that D is not for Diversity and that F [rack mounted] models are the ones operated in that way.

My 88 does, however, have DIVERSITY stamped at the back along with RELAY for the changeover circuit etc. I can't find a serial No so far despite inverting and rotating the works on a sort of coaster made from a thick layer of cardboard. There is no convenient ID plate on the centre front as with some sets but there is a small black and white label top right that says "Slave 34".

So.... despite appearing to be a standard AR88D it's clearly been a slave unit and is marked Diversity-any ideas are very welcome. Have I missed the obvious as usual?

Second question. Is there a standard location for the serial No? If so where?
I did find 690090 on the back of the S Meter but I'm not sure if that's related.
Just to confuse things it inverts perfectly as 060069!

Going back to my Bletchley comment, I did mention this set to Sean W last year and he said that a Diversity set up was being re-created there.

Dave W
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 9:38 pm   #26
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Dave,

Once the services had the units they could and probably did modify them to suit appropriate tasks.Your unit has probably gone through that.

The "D" or "F" designation is obviously purely RCA factory ordered option and supply.

Remember we had the cold war start in the fifties and radio/electronic surveillance was king.

I am not sure when the AR88 stuff appeared first on the surplus market, I remember seeing adverts in the sixties but others may be able to confirm if they appeared in the fifties. After the war a lot was held onto and continued to be used until new designs came through like the RA17. Many AR88D units on the surplus market in the 60's I think were new I can remember the advertised prices being in the range of about £30 - £40 when No 19 set stations new were going for about £10.

Mike
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 10:14 pm   #27
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Thanks Michael you may well be right [I've no idea] but the diversity stamp on the back of the chassis seems original. They were certainly not cheap when on the market under the lend/lease return agreement. Then there are the tales about a dealer buying parachute drop boxes and finding mint sets inside and others being dumped down mine shafts. Even if I could have had any chance of affording one in the 60's and despite seeing them in operation, the one IF seemed a bit "old hat" [at the time] as it was all G2DAF and dual [or triple] conversion]. I suppose that given the scale of production with these sets and their wide distribution, there could well have been a great deal of scope for confusion! Any comments on serial number placement? At least this has got me doing something with it at last, if only dragging it around.
Dave
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Old 29th Mar 2011, 10:38 pm   #28
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Dear All,
I had a look at the AR88 manuals that I have. Both are original RCA manuals. One is for an AR88 and one is for an AR88D. Both are for effectively the same receiver except that the AR88D has an addendum that is dated November 43 with some circuit changes.

In fact the photos and many of the response curves and drawings are the same between the two manuals and some of the 88D ones are actually labelled 88.

Tentative conclusion. The set that we know as the D was the original 88 and only had a letter applied to it when the other marks came out.

Next point. Both manuals have a diversity connection from the factory and the manual describes its use. I seem to recall that the LF was similar in this area.

Tentative conclusion. AR88s as manufactured are all capable of diversity.

Question. Did an F have enhanced diversity circuits or did it refer to the complete package of the standard sets in a rack with any supporting equipment?

Regards

Robin
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Old 30th Mar 2011, 1:55 am   #29
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Hi Robin,

according to the http://www.radioblvd.com/ar88.htm reference all F variants contained the enhanced diverdity circuitry as they were designed to be rackmounted in the RCA triple diversity package.

All other AR88 receivers were capable of a cruder form of diversity operation as they had their agc voltage wired to output sockets, hence when joined together with other receivers the largest signal receptor muted the other receivers.No F variants had carrier level meters as in the diversity system the avc and diode loads of each receiver were tied together in the rack.

I suspect you purchased the RCA triple diversity system in which the receivers were F type or the later CR88 ,SC-88.

Dave an email to that reference site may give you an answer on the serial numbers , they state only 25,000 units were produced though many of them without carrier level meters. There is refernce to the meters used having a strong resemblance to those used by Hammarlund in their gear so that seriel number could be for the meter.

I am afraid it is all supposition!

Mike
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Old 30th Mar 2011, 10:23 am   #30
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

That all makes sense.

Robin
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Old 30th Mar 2011, 11:33 am   #31
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

The site http://www.radioblvd.com/ar88.htm answers many of the questions asked here. It does seem quite clear now that the "AR" prefix was initially chosen to stand for "Amateur Radio" - this is implied by the info. given for the AR77, and that the suffixes were chosen to denote various electrical and / or mechanical variations on the base model.
Hence, the last remaining (& fascinating) question is what happened to all the earlier designs that used numbers less that "77"? Much room for speculation here!

Al.
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Old 30th Mar 2011, 12:17 pm   #32
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Hi Al,

The start to the little research on this would be to find out the history of RCA as a company. I believe it was formed at some time from a group of other companies. The AR77 was a prewar design so take us probably into the early/mid 30's when it was designed and released.

If RCA was formed as a company in the late 20's there probably would not have been any earlier designs under their name but maybe some Company incorporated into the RCA group.

Mike
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Old 30th Mar 2011, 1:41 pm   #33
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Thanks for all the "diverse" comments! I'll take another look. The meter doesn't seem to be non -standard but I agree that the serial No is unlikely to relate to the set itself [that was just a long shot]. What's been said does tie in with the appearance of some sort of diversity capability sockets at the back but holes drilled out and adding modern sockets obscure things.
Dave W
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 8:51 am   #34
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Dave,
The original diversity connection would be the end (Right Hand when looking at rear) of a strip of screw terminals that also contained the speakers and, I think, a connection to the transmit/receive relay that could be driven by the switch on the front panel.

Robin
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 5:26 pm   #35
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Thanks Robin. Can't see an extra switch on the front. Lacking camera facilities and looking at the rear, from left to right, I've got octal mains selectors x2 [one disused]. Then the 600 ohm output strip screw terminals. Underneath is a longer strip of 5 terminals marked 2.5 ohm out/Trans/Relay and Diversity. Two extra holes drilled re a domestic audio out put socket. In the middle is a preset pot R21. To the right A+E screw terminals plus an [added] Coax socket. There are 7 empty holes here marked L4/6/8 and L2/12/10 and L57 on the extreme right. Were these diversity items? Don't really want to go OT on this as the thread subject is set identity not restoration. Do you have an 88 at present I wonder? Does it have a serial No?

Cheers, Dave
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 5:30 pm   #36
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

I think L4 etc are holes to stick trimming tools through when aligning the set?
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 5:37 pm   #37
dave walsh
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Yes of course Graham. I was getting carried away with the notion of a special Version. My only defence is that I was "diverted"by the various other mods and drillings that have been carried out. Not [as far as I can tell] though, on the front!
Dave

PS Just looked at photos on the "Henry's East Ealing" site which are the same as this set [front and rear] so there is nothing added but there is a diversity terminal there as well!

Last edited by dave walsh; 31st Mar 2011 at 5:46 pm. Reason: More Comment
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 7:48 pm   #38
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Well Fellas,

I emailed that superb History museum site and had an excellent response back almost immediately with regard to the receivers prior to the AR77.


Quote from them:
"
Yes, RCA did have some amateur receivers on the market prior to the AR-77. In 1934, RCA introduced the ACR-136 which was a seven tube receiver. It was more of a typical consumer All Wave radio installed in a metal cabinet. Popular and sold fairly well.

In 1936, RCA introduced the ACR-155 with nine tubes. This was a better receiver with more features. One RF amp.

Also, in 1936, the ACR-175 was available which featured 11 tubes and was also fairly popular. One RF amp.

Around 1937, the ACR-111 was introduced. This was a 16 tube receiver based on the AVR-11 airport receiver. Very nice radio with two RF amps but, at $189, a little high priced for hams.

The ultimate was the AR-60 from 1935. Only 11 tubes but commercial in design with 2 RF amps. Only a few hundred were built since they sold for around $400.

The AR-77 was introduced in 1940 and was an excellent receiver priced about right for hams. Not extremely popular but you do see them now and again.

General opinion is that ACR was for Amateur Communications Receiver and AR was for Amateur Receiver, however that certainly changed with the AR-88 series. With the AR-88, RCA never produced an Amateur/Ham receiver afterward. " Unquote

The internet makes this world a very small place....

Dave contact that site straight away with a question about serial numbers etc and I am sure more will be revealed.

Regards
Mike

Last edited by MichaelR; 31st Mar 2011 at 7:51 pm. Reason: correction
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 8:51 pm   #39
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Yes I'll probaly do that Mike. I suspect there might be something concealed in one of the heavily screened areas [apart from the coils].

Finally downloaded the Manual to find that-

[a] The trimmer holes Graham referred to are for wave trap and aerial coil inductance
adjustments.

[b] Also a tiny paragraph says that, for Diversity Reception, connect together the terminals marked as such "on two or three receivers and equip each receiver with a separate antenna. The diversity terminal is conected inside the receiver to the AVC circuits.Tune as explained" This seems to clear up the mystery for me! Still wondering about the F model though.

Re the name, it does seem feasible based on the history that the AR designation was simply ongoing from the pre war domestic period. The Carphone Warehouse is still in operation but I don't think they make car phones anymore.


Dave W

Last edited by dave walsh; 31st Mar 2011 at 9:03 pm. Reason: more comment
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Old 31st Mar 2011, 9:31 pm   #40
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Default Re: The AR88 receiver: its name?

Dave,

Have a look at this site there are some good front panel photos of the AR88D and the CR88 diversity receiver used in the RCA diversity system.There are also excellent photos of the earlier receivers going back as detailed in my earlier post.

http://www.oldradios.co.nz/gallery/a...CA%20CR88.html

Following on with some further "digging" into the RCA group history in the pictures on the excellent site whose link is above there is a RCA AR8510 . Now this is not mentioned in the history of the pre AR77 receivers from the museum but further research identified why.

The link below shows the history and product line from RCA Marine which was formed from the purchase by GE of the American Marconi Company which was British owned in 1927.The AR8510 was one of their products and a marine receiver.


http://www.imradioha.org/RMCA.htm


Altough a subsidisry of RCA it carried the RCA logo and the name Radio Marine Corporation of America ..... confusing eh. This I believe was encouraged by the US Government as they did not want to be supplied on Governement defence contracts by a non US owned Company for obvious reasons.

It does all start to make sense now as RCA had as it's core massive Financial interests in broadcasting , Film making and distribution, record industry and entertainment etc , we all remember HMV and the picture of "nipper" looking into the phonograph horn. As far as Radio is concerned Commercial and Defence development continued after WW2 but not with amateur radio at all, domestic radio and Tv were massive money spinners for RCA ( RCA Victor), they could supply commercial radio and Tv station equipment and infrastructure as well as domestic receiving equipment.

This would explain the "drop off" of amateur radio products as it would be too small an interest.

Regards
Mike

Last edited by MichaelR; 31st Mar 2011 at 9:34 pm. Reason: addition
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