EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

benjivazquez · 26th Nov 2015, 7:33 pm

Hi I´m from mexico city, recently I bought a Philips EL 3536 but there were no belts. I made a rubber belt but by placing noticed that the sound was very fast. I am sure that the diameter of the belt is not correct. You know the diameter of the belt? or that I have to do to make the playback speed is slower?

Saludos...

Techman · 27th Nov 2015, 12:48 am

There’s probably nothing wrong with the tape recorder. If it’s a single speed machine, then it could well be that the tapes you’re using are recorded at a different speed for replay on a different tape machine. The answer is to either obtain tapes that are recorded at the correct speed for your machine, or make your own new recordings on the machine that you have, then they’ll play back at the correct speed.

radiotechnician · 27th Nov 2015, 5:37 am

The speed of the EL3536 tape recorder does not depend on the belt.

If you take the belt off, and let the tape play, it will just spill loose in the right side.

If the music is too fast , by about 6/5ths, the machine might be a 50 Hz model
playing on 60 Hz power.

If the music is correct, the clutch on the right side might be pulling too hard.

Restoration73 · 27th Nov 2015, 6:57 am

Also, check there isn't a bit of surplus tape stuck to the capstan .....

benjivazquez · 30th Nov 2015, 6:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techman

There’s probably nothing wrong with the tape recorder. If it’s a single speed machine, then it could well be that the tapes you’re using are recorded at a different speed for replay on a different tape machine. The answer is to either obtain tapes that are recorded at the correct speed for your machine, or make your own new recordings on the machine that you have, then they’ll play back at the correct speed.

Thanks that's the same as I thought, I´ll rewrite new tracks in my own recorder.

I have a new question: the rewind button doesn't work, it works with belts also?

ricard · 30th Nov 2015, 8:45 pm

First of all, the EL3536 has three speeds (three buttons on the right), are all three of them too fast?

The belt is needed for rewind and fast forward, and also as noted above to make the take-up reel go so that the tape doesn't just spill out to the right as it plays.

The machine only has two belts. One small one for driving the tape counter - it is not necessary for tape movement. The other one runs round the motor pulley, the rewind and takeup pulleys, and a small spring-loaded tensioning pulley.

benjivazquez · 30th Nov 2015, 11:17 pm

No, each has a different speed. Three work very well.

I locate perfectly the placement of the belts, but I can not rewind and fast forward. I don't know why. Attached belts picture.

Saludos.

ricard · 1st Dec 2015, 1:49 pm

A classic problem on these machines is that there are neoprene (?) rubber studs on the reel pulleys which drive the actual reel tables. The studs perish with time, and the result is that you get no fast wind drive, but usually a scraping noise as the two parts scrape against each other. It could be that depending on how the machine is adjusted, you get no drive at all. The reel height will also be too low on the corresponding reel table when it is engaged.

Disengaging the brake arm well allow the reel tables to be removed for further inspection.

The studs are marked 9 in this picture (from another thread on the forum):
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...2&d=1422987621

benjivazquez · 1st Dec 2015, 6:18 pm

I thought it was a problem with some belt but I´ll try with the studs. Thanks...

radiotechnician · 2nd Dec 2015, 8:19 pm

In the diagram items 6 on the right, and 7 on the left , are rods that move down
and lower the turntables onto the 'Viscaloid' studs, three on each rotating drum.

Those rods are lifted and lowered by the rewind and forward wind keys via a
metal linkage. The rods might be gummed up by old lubrication.

benjivazquez · 5th Dec 2015, 12:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricard

A classic problem on these machines is that there are neoprene (?) rubber studs on the reel pulleys which drive the actual reel tables. The studs perish with time, and the result is that you get no fast wind drive, but usually a scraping noise as the two parts scrape against each other. It could be that depending on how the machine is adjusted, you get no drive at all. The reel height will also be too low on the corresponding reel table when it is engaged.

Yesterday, I tried, however, the studs are overused and I put some of silicon, I attached pics and some videos as the they used to before, before and after. I might help a little bit with this theme
https://youtu.be/REy0YcikYZQ
https://youtu.be/ZIitrQoYZGs

benjivazquez · 5th Dec 2015, 12:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiotechnician

The rods might be gummed up by old lubrication.

Exactly is the question to ask. The metal linkage moves to the keys but does not generate any action. What can I do?

ricard · 5th Dec 2015, 9:46 pm

As radiotechnician wrote above, it looks like the lubrication of the rods - I'd actually call them shafts, as they are what the actual reel tables actually rotate on - has gummed up over the years. Normally, when you press one of the wind keys, the corresponding shaft will move slightly downwards, causing the top reel table to drop half a millimetre or so in order to engage with the friction studs, but this does not seem to be happening, looking at your (excellent, by the way!) videos.

If I remember correctly, what you need to do is remote the actual reel holder, then the plastic disk beneath it, and then try to grip the rod and force it up, taking care not to loose any of the shimming washers that are there. Be careful not to scratch it with any tools. You might be able to free it by dripping some thin oil down along it, and wiggling it back and forth. After removing the shaft, clean it and the hole it runs inside, and then relubricate it with oil. It should move freely up and down.

The bottom part of the shaft is flattened and engages in a corresponding hole in the linkage connecting to the respective wind buttons, so when remounting it you need to turn it until you feel it engages with the linkage.

It's a very common problem with these machines, but is usually fairly easy to sort out.

benjivazquez · 24th Dec 2015, 6:13 am

Hi Ricard, I tried like you indicated, but the shaft is very hard, do not have movement and fear damage. What can I do?

ricard · 25th Dec 2015, 2:35 am

Perhaps try and put a couple of drops of (thin) oil at the top and wait a couple of days for the oil to soften the existing hardened lubrication.

mike3300 · 26th Jan 2016, 12:07 am

Hello i own the same recorder. Put a little more silicon on the reel pulleys... on the video you can see it starts to pull but not enough. The downward movement is very very slightly... when you add to much silicon You can cut it away with a knife. I like this one a lot - it's frame is bulletproof... many years before Philips decided to build full plastic mechanics...

succes,

Regards Mike.

26th Nov 2015, 7:33 pm	#1
benjivazquez Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Mexico City, México Posts: 7	EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. Hi I´m from mexico city, recently I bought a Philips EL 3536 but there were no belts. I made a rubber belt but by placing noticed that the sound was very fast. I am sure that the diameter of the belt is not correct. You know the diameter of the belt? or that I have to do to make the playback speed is slower? Saludos...

27th Nov 2015, 12:48 am	#2
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. There’s probably nothing wrong with the tape recorder. If it’s a single speed machine, then it could well be that the tapes you’re using are recorded at a different speed for replay on a different tape machine. The answer is to either obtain tapes that are recorded at the correct speed for your machine, or make your own new recordings on the machine that you have, then they’ll play back at the correct speed.

27th Nov 2015, 5:37 am	#3
radiotechnician Pentode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Powell River, British Columbia, Canada. Posts: 217	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. The speed of the EL3536 tape recorder does not depend on the belt. If you take the belt off, and let the tape play, it will just spill loose in the right side. If the music is too fast , by about 6/5ths, the machine might be a 50 Hz model playing on 60 Hz power. If the music is correct, the clutch on the right side might be pulling too hard. __________________ Steve Dow VE7ASO

27th Nov 2015, 6:57 am	#4
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. Also, check there isn't a bit of surplus tape stuck to the capstan .....

30th Nov 2015, 8:45 pm	#6
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. First of all, the EL3536 has three speeds (three buttons on the right), are all three of them too fast? The belt is needed for rewind and fast forward, and also as noted above to make the take-up reel go so that the tape doesn't just spill out to the right as it plays. The machine only has two belts. One small one for driving the tape counter - it is not necessary for tape movement. The other one runs round the motor pulley, the rewind and takeup pulleys, and a small spring-loaded tensioning pulley.

30th Nov 2015, 11:17 pm	#7
benjivazquez Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Mexico City, México Posts: 7	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. No, each has a different speed. Three work very well. I locate perfectly the placement of the belts, but I can not rewind and fast forward. I don't know why. Attached belts picture. Saludos. Attached Thumbnails

1st Dec 2015, 1:49 pm	#8
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. A classic problem on these machines is that there are neoprene (?) rubber studs on the reel pulleys which drive the actual reel tables. The studs perish with time, and the result is that you get no fast wind drive, but usually a scraping noise as the two parts scrape against each other. It could be that depending on how the machine is adjusted, you get no drive at all. The reel height will also be too low on the corresponding reel table when it is engaged. Disengaging the brake arm well allow the reel tables to be removed for further inspection. The studs are marked 9 in this picture (from another thread on the forum): https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...2&d=1422987621

1st Dec 2015, 6:18 pm	#9
benjivazquez Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Mexico City, México Posts: 7	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. I thought it was a problem with some belt but I´ll try with the studs. Thanks...

2nd Dec 2015, 8:19 pm	#10
radiotechnician Pentode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Powell River, British Columbia, Canada. Posts: 217	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. In the diagram items 6 on the right, and 7 on the left , are rods that move down and lower the turntables onto the 'Viscaloid' studs, three on each rotating drum. Those rods are lifted and lowered by the rewind and forward wind keys via a metal linkage. The rods might be gummed up by old lubrication. __________________ Steve Dow VE7ASO

5th Dec 2015, 9:46 pm	#13
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. As radiotechnician wrote above, it looks like the lubrication of the rods - I'd actually call them shafts, as they are what the actual reel tables actually rotate on - has gummed up over the years. Normally, when you press one of the wind keys, the corresponding shaft will move slightly downwards, causing the top reel table to drop half a millimetre or so in order to engage with the friction studs, but this does not seem to be happening, looking at your (excellent, by the way!) videos. If I remember correctly, what you need to do is remote the actual reel holder, then the plastic disk beneath it, and then try to grip the rod and force it up, taking care not to loose any of the shimming washers that are there. Be careful not to scratch it with any tools. You might be able to free it by dripping some thin oil down along it, and wiggling it back and forth. After removing the shaft, clean it and the hole it runs inside, and then relubricate it with oil. It should move freely up and down. The bottom part of the shaft is flattened and engages in a corresponding hole in the linkage connecting to the respective wind buttons, so when remounting it you need to turn it until you feel it engages with the linkage. It's a very common problem with these machines, but is usually fairly easy to sort out.

24th Dec 2015, 6:13 am	#14
benjivazquez Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Mexico City, México Posts: 7	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. Hi Ricard, I tried like you indicated, but the shaft is very hard, do not have movement and fear damage. What can I do?

25th Dec 2015, 2:35 am	#15
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. Perhaps try and put a couple of drops of (thin) oil at the top and wait a couple of days for the oil to soften the existing hardened lubrication.

26th Jan 2016, 12:07 am	#16
mike3300 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, The Netherlands Posts: 8	Re: EL 3536 Philips the sound is very fast. Hello i own the same recorder. Put a little more silicon on the reel pulleys... on the video you can see it starts to pull but not enough. The downward movement is very very slightly... when you add to much silicon You can cut it away with a knife. I like this one a lot - it's frame is bulletproof... many years before Philips decided to build full plastic mechanics... succes, Regards Mike.