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Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment For discussions about vintage test gear and workshop equipment such as coil winders. |
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20th Aug 2018, 11:15 am | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,764
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Basic metalwork
As my skills improve I find myself needing all sorts of metal boxes. I wonder, is it practical to make such metal boxes at home from sheet metal (or scrap pieces) in a small workshop? I’m not really sure what kind of tools id need and whether it is feasible to do this in limited workshop space, or even outside in a covered area. Any views would be helpful
Thanks Adam |
20th Aug 2018, 11:36 am | #2 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St Ives, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,180
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Re: Basic metalwork
Junior hacksaw, some measuring tools and a pop rivet gun would be the most basic, moving on up to guillotine, sheet metal brake and some form of welder.
Andrew
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20th Aug 2018, 11:56 am | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 3,957
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Re: Basic metalwork
I would add a Battery drill, drill bit set 1mm to 10mm. 2 metal cone / step cutters, but theses require a bit more power. I have access to a welder but never needed one making boxes etc, I don't have a metal break but with a strong vice, two lengths of 3inch angle and clamps or vice grips, scrap wood and a big hammer it is possible to do a lot and make a neat job. Easy way to make a case is with two strips of metal both bent into a U section and slotted together.
John. Last edited by 60 oldjohn; 20th Aug 2018 at 12:19 pm. |
20th Aug 2018, 12:29 pm | #4 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,764
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Re: Basic metalwork
Thanks guys, it’s sounding quite doable then. I like the sound of rivets rather than welding and have been meaning to get a decent vice. I may even have a rivet gun with my late fathers tools. I have the drills already, I have an angle grinder but I don’t think that would do a very neat job, so something better to cut might be in order.
I often see bits of metal and think if only I could use it to make a box for X project, or even a chassis |
20th Aug 2018, 12:44 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
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Re: Basic metalwork
I used Old John's method (angle iron) to make a box for my son's D&T school project some years ago. To fold neatly I used one of the tools from my welding clamp set, vise-grip pliers with two plates welded to the jaws so that about 3" of metal could be folded at a time, only folding over a small angle first all along the workpiece and then progressively increasing the angle, and finishing off with a hammer. Once I had got a U-shaped channel I made cut outs at the location of the corners to produce 45° surfaces that would mate when the corner was folded. As the Aluminium I was using was fairly thick, and access to the inside was needed, the top and base were attached by drilling and tapping holes in the arms of the U for machine screws, but spire nuts and self tappers would have done.
I was working for Marconi at the time, and there were always offcuts of Aluminium sheet to be had from the scrap bin. |
20th Aug 2018, 12:44 pm | #6 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: S.W. London, UK.
Posts: 416
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Re: Basic metalwork
For small simple folding search for a "vice brake". The main limitation of these is the lack of draft/clearance on one side of the fold due to the depth of the vice jaw. You could use one of these to start the fold and then finish off as oldjohn & emeritus state.
Vic Last edited by Vicboduk; 20th Aug 2018 at 12:50 pm. Reason: additional text |
20th Aug 2018, 12:55 pm | #7 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK.
Posts: 7,457
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Re: Basic metalwork
Materials: sheet aluminium, typically 2 mm. thick; aluminium angle, 3 mm. thick; 3 mm. screws.
Tools: electric drill and a selection of bits; tools to cut the aluminium sheet (I use a B & D Workmate and a hacksaw for large pieces; bench vice and saw for smaller ones); 3 mm. taps: taper and second cut; tap wrench; general 'everyday tools', such as screwdrivers, etc. Method: determine the size and shape of required box: cut aluminium sheet accordingly. Cut the aluminium angle to appropriate lengths so that they will from a frame for the box. The aluminium angle can be mitred at its ends so that the completed frame for the box gives a neat framework. The idea is to tap 3 mm. threads in the aluminium angle and drill corresponding holes in the aluminium sheet close to its edges so that the 3 mm. screws will pass through those holes and screw into the angle. You could use countersink screws and countersink the holes in the aluminium sheet, if so required. Obviously, careful measurement will be needed to get the holes in exactly the right places. Result: you then have a box with each of the six sides readily removable, enabling easy fitment of things inside, plus the drilling of other holes to secure items to any particular side and almost any particular place. Al. |
20th Aug 2018, 1:00 pm | #8 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 3,957
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Re: Basic metalwork
Quote:
If you are drilling thin metal sheet with a bit larger than 10mm you risk tearing the metal, Stepper drills can drill 5 mm to 25mm or more, neatly. If you are using Galvanised sheet an angle grinder even with a cutting disk will burn the Galvanising. Also believe it or not, it is so easy to burn the motor out on any angle grinder when cutting thin sheet. John. Last edited by 60 oldjohn; 20th Aug 2018 at 1:06 pm. Reason: Added last line |
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20th Aug 2018, 1:17 pm | #9 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,798
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Re: Basic metalwork
It sounds like what you are thinking of can be done with basic hand tools:
Drill, hacksaw, files, vice, pop rivet gun. It can be made a lot quicker, a lot easier and a bit safer with a few more specialist tools. There are small bench versions available right up to big factory jobs. The small ones will do fine: A pillar drill _ Less likely to go skating off than a hand-held drill. A small guillotine - Once you've tried hack-sawing sheet metal and filing the edge straight, you'll appreciate a small guillotine. Yes there are tinsnips and aviation shears, but they leave the metal bent and that makes another problem. A small folder (sometimes called a brake or press-brake) You can make do with a couple of angle irons in your vice, but a folder leaves a better edge. Don't skimp on the vice, you'll need a decent size, solidly mounted. Bolted to a work bench is best. Ones with screw clamp mounting can cause you to slip which can result in injury David
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20th Aug 2018, 1:48 pm | #11 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 3,051
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Re: Basic metalwork
At a pinch, light-gauge aluminium sheet can be scored with a Stanley knife and 'fatigued' to produce quite a clean cut.
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20th Aug 2018, 1:57 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 3,957
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Re: Basic metalwork
Maybe worth seeking out a metal working course in your area, even if you only go for two weeks. You may learn small things regarding finishes, down to filling a round corner on sheet metal the easy way, sorry if this seems patronising but I was taught this at 12 and involves altering the height of the file handle while the file is traveling through the stroke, difficult for me to describe.
John. |
20th Aug 2018, 2:00 pm | #13 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeen, UK.
Posts: 2,838
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Re: Basic metalwork
Adam,
Once you've mastered the basic skills as per the excellent advice from other guys - keep an eye out for a decent 2nd hand box of 'Q Max' Cutters. They used to be from 5/8" up to 1 1/4" - a set of six plus two Allen keys. Just the ticket for cutting very neat round holes in thin sheet metal. Ideal for Valve holder & Grommet holes, etc. Cheapo scribers or angled dental like picks can bought cheaply on the internet. Then move on up(skill-wise) to compasses & callipers etc. Regards, David |
20th Aug 2018, 5:32 pm | #14 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,188
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Re: Basic metalwork
Genuine Qmax cutters came both larger and smaller than that. I think I have a 3/8" one somewhere. I certainly have 1+3/4" which Maplin sold at one point (it made the hole for a single-hole-mounting meter they sold, I bought it when it was discontinued). I bought a few 'back in the day', 5/8", 3/4" and 1+1/8" for the obvious (on this list) reason.
The 'modern replacements' are the Greenlee punches. It's an American company, and their products are very good. They also make some rectangular and odd-shaped punches, like those for D connectors. RS sell some of them but be sitting down when you see the prices, like all good tools they are not cheap. For smaller holes I find a hand drill (wheelbrace) to be more useful a lot of the time than a powered drill. Certainly if you need to add a screw hole to a partially finished box or chassis. And do get an automatic centre punch (one of those that you press down, it clicks and gives an impact to the punch). Drilling metal without centre punching the holes is a good way to get the drill wandering everywhere. |
20th Aug 2018, 6:58 pm | #15 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Scarborough, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 507
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Re: Basic metalwork
If there still is a Model Engineering class in your location( not likely any more) join up and use their press brake with boxing attachment and their guillotine. You may meet up with some one who knows the ropes regarding making boxes and as a bonus, often there are off cuts in the waste bin which can be used for practicing bending. When we had a Model engineering class the welders were next door, very handy.
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20th Aug 2018, 7:49 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,171
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Re: Basic metalwork
There are plenty of basic sheet metalwork books in the Model Engineer series, they turn up quite cheaply on ebay and in second hand bookshops.
For joining Ali you can buy Alu-sol solder that works with a normal iron and once the sheet has been "tinned" normal solder can be used. Be sure to wash the flux off afterwards as it can be corrosive. Have fun. Ed |
20th Aug 2018, 8:36 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Basic metalwork
I have to be the 'spectre at the feast' here. The first time I bought boxes for radio projects was ~50 years ago; anyone recall the 'Universal Chassis' made by Home Radio Mitcham? I've done quite a lot of metal work and I'm reasonably well-equipped, but I've rarely managed to make a box (with a lid) which was of the same standard as a something made on a production line. Getting all the folds in just the right place at just the right angle, eludes me. But I don't need to do it very often, so the level of skill does not increase greatly. You can spend quite a lot of time making a box, which when it's finished, doesn't quite meet the standard.
Of course, this has not been a problem until recently, as it was possible to buy aluminium boxes and chassis at reasonable prices. Maplins used to have a good range. Sadly, such project boxes don't seem to be made in the UK any more. People like Mouser offer quite a comprehensive range of imports, but at a price. So my current strategy is that if I need a metal box that will be going inside another box (and won't be seen) I may well make one. But if I'm looking for the external housing of a project "of significance", I will put my hand in my pocket and buy a commercial product. B
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20th Aug 2018, 10:24 pm | #18 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,782
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Re: Basic metalwork
For my constructions,that need to look good.ish I recycle cases from old test equipment..when I go to rallies or junk sales I search for instrument cases that may come in useful.... these can be obtained quite cheaply. I will strip the item down, make new front and back panels, and if the internal chassis is too "holy".. cut out the area and replate, as with my recent puchase, a Heathkit RA1 receiver.. it is now the chassis and case for my Multiband SSB Transceiver .
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20th Aug 2018, 11:09 pm | #19 | |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,872
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Re: Basic metalwork
Quote:
With a hacksaw (and sorry if you know this already) you'll get much straighter results if you can clamp the sheet horizontally over the edge of the bench (maybe even just with a bench hook for small bits) and use the saw as flat to the job as you can get while not running out of throat. The cut is a long one at a very shallow angle which means the teeth stay on longer, but more importantly the length of the cut and the tension in the blade mean you are much, much less likely to wander. Cutting a straight line with the sheet clamped vertically in a vice is much more difficult. Oh - make anything first out of cornflakes box, and don't forget to make allowance for sheet thickness around the folds |
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21st Aug 2018, 12:45 am | #20 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,798
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Re: Basic metalwork
With care you can hacksaw horizontal cuts in sheet held upright in vice jaws.
I used to use an angle grinder for stainless, but it leaves razor like edges and swarf. I went over to a plasma cutter and there's no going back. Run it along a straight edge, but it takes experience to draw it at constant speed. David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |