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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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11th Sep 2021, 9:38 am | #1 |
Diode
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Haifa, Israel.
Posts: 2
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BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Hello all,
I am trying to put into use a BSR P128R turntable my family has since I was a small boy. The pickup arm is still connected to a SC12M cartridge but is missing the stylus. 1. Is the SC-12M ideal for my BSR device? 2. Which stylus should be placed in my SC12M cartridge (some websites indicate ST12 and others ST17)? 3. where can i get the service manual (not the instruction manual) for my BSR P128R device ? I attached a few pictures of my device. Thank you all Adi |
11th Sep 2021, 10:40 am | #2 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Craven Arms, Shropshire
Posts: 111
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
ST16 and ST17 are flipover, ST20 and ST21 are single LP/45 tip. But not ST12. Hope this helps!
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11th Sep 2021, 3:59 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,498
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Is this deck incorporated into some kind of stereo system?
I mention it because, if you plan to use it with a modern-ish amp with 'phono' input, then you will need to change to a magnetic cartridge.
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Regards, Ben. |
11th Sep 2021, 4:14 pm | #4 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
This is the steel platter version of the MP60, so a ceramic cartridge may be preferred.
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11th Sep 2021, 10:51 pm | #5 |
Diode
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Haifa, Israel.
Posts: 2
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Thanks Ben for you prompt reply.
you are correct, as I do intent to connect my BSR P128R device to a modern receiver - Harman AVR 142 to its CD input. From what I understood, this connection does not require a preamp for my current ceramic cartridge. however, any future magnetic cartridge will definitely require a preamp. I appreciate your comment on that. |
12th Sep 2021, 12:09 am | #6 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
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12th Sep 2021, 1:07 am | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,498
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Connected as you propose, you will find the sound weak and lacking in bass. This is because ceramic carts need equalization and a higher input impedance than these amps can provide.
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Regards, Ben. |
12th Sep 2021, 1:23 am | #8 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 1,873
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
It might be worth reading through this thread if you haven't already done so
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=183475 as it covers connecting a ceramic cartridge to a modern amp. |
15th Sep 2021, 2:52 pm | #9 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 311
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Quote:
Crystal & Ceramic cartridges would be unaffected by the turntable material.
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If you live, the chassis was dead; if you're dead, the chassis was live !!!! |
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15th Sep 2021, 6:17 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,498
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
I've often seen this, but surely the tiny cartridge magnet, plus the fact there's a disc and a relatively thick rubber mat covering the platter suggest the effect would be negligible. Anyone have any more data or experience of this?
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Regards, Ben. |
15th Sep 2021, 8:39 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,846
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Some Goldrings have a chunky magnet above the stylus assembly, which surely must affect things in this respect.
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15th Sep 2021, 8:55 pm | #12 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Although turntables such as this with a 4-pole motor have a lower hum field, this can be
induced into the steel platter making hum worse, the problem is even more pronounced with a basic 2 pole motor design, to the extent where a magnetic cartridge is unusable. |
15th Sep 2021, 9:41 pm | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 9,433
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
The cartridge in post #1 looks damaged in the third photo, if it is there is no point getting a stylus.
The stylus fits between two ‘ears’, one looks broken, perhaps it’s just the photo, or my eyes.
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Frank |
15th Sep 2021, 10:19 pm | #14 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Quote:
Chicken or egg? is the hum causing the vibrations at the cart via sound waves, or vibrations at the motor just impacting the cart (and incidentally causing a hum) ?! and if vibration rather than soundwaves would it come more via the platter (which as Ben says has a rubber mat, a record, and is somewhat isolated from the deck via a rubber idler wheel) or the tonearm that's pretty much attached direct to the deck? So many questions! |
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15th Sep 2021, 10:51 pm | #15 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
The hum is electrically and not mechanically induced.
Vibration in ac motors and transformers is predominantly 3rd harmonic - 150 Hz (for 50) It is possible to read a record groove using a laser, indeed a Japanese model did. That would have been immune to induced fields. |
16th Sep 2021, 5:39 am | #16 | |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,100
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Quote:
Mike |
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16th Sep 2021, 10:53 am | #17 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 311
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Quote:
I don't ever recall any problems with that combination. So maybe any so called problems with that combination, could be theoretical rather than in reality....
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If you live, the chassis was dead; if you're dead, the chassis was live !!!! |
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16th Sep 2021, 12:56 pm | #18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 5,000
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
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16th Sep 2021, 2:54 pm | #19 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 311
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Quote:
The P128R seems to have been a slightly cheaper version of the "MP60", with a lighter pressed steel platter fitted. Everything else about the deck was the same, although the P128R may have had a different motor fitted too? It's so long ago now (1970's), I can't remember for sure.
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If you live, the chassis was dead; if you're dead, the chassis was live !!!! |
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16th Sep 2021, 6:02 pm | #20 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,328
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Re: BSR P128R SC12M missing stylus
Your comments above as to the variants of this deck are correct. The HT70 will be very rare these days, whereas the cheaper P128 appeared in many "seperates" type systems and are much more commonly found.
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Edward. |