UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Telephony and Telecomms

Notices

Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 25th Feb 2021, 11:43 am   #1
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Not particularly a vintage phone question but maybe some of you experts could help me. BT Openreach have just been and installed a new master socket (NTE5?). I asked them to reconnect the cable to the extension upstairs but when I plugged in my 706 and lifted the handset, it caused the downstairs phone to ring continuously - not just tinkle. I replaced the 706 with a modern Scepter 100 (OK, relatively modern) and it did the same. Placing an ADSL filter in front of the phone made no difference. Any idea what's happening here before I get BT back?

Thanks Ken
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 12:11 pm   #2
winston_1
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 359
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

I seem to recall this happens when the A and B wires (terminals 2 and 5) are reversed in the extension socket.
winston_1 is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 12:40 pm   #3
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 17,864
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

I know that extension wiring faults can cause this, but I've only ever known it happen with phones that have electronic tone ringers rather than electro-magnetic bells. The latter require 25Hz AC to operate them and as far as I know this will only be present when an incoming call is awaiting answer.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 12:53 pm   #4
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

I haven't tried a different phone on the main socket yet - the one that rings is an electronic ringer.

Ken
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 1:16 pm   #5
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 17,864
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Taylor View Post
I haven't tried a different phone on the main socket yet - the one that rings is an electronic ringer.

Ken
I was confused because you said it was a continuous ring and not just a tinkle. Tinkle to me means a magneto bell.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 1:35 pm   #6
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,485
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Pretty sure it happens when there's a reversal of wire 2 and 5 at the telephone with the electronic ringer.

When you lift the handset of the 706 (or 746), the 12V d.c. passes from wire 5 through T18 and 19, one set of switch-hook contacts, the ASTIC, the regulator, the other set of switch contacts and out through Terminals 4,5,6 to Terminal 3 in the master LJU thence to wire 3 of the extension telephone cable.

But if the bottom of the electronic ringer is connected to wire 2 instead of wire 5. there'll be a direct current through it and it will hoot.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 2:25 pm   #7
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Yes, I should not of written tinkle for an electronic ringer, sorry about that.

Russell, sound like a very good description of the problem, I'll check the wiring.

Thanks both for the advice.
Ken
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 3:07 pm   #8
dagskarlsen
Heptode
 
dagskarlsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hakadal, Norway
Posts: 542
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

If it helps on the feeling, I have had some tinkle like sounds on the oldest electronic ringer I have, in that hence that when an other rotary phone is used it comes a weak beep for each pulse.
dagskarlsen is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 5:34 pm   #9
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 10,499
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

That's minor, our cordless 'phones ring for another cycle even after the other party has answered it.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2021, 5:38 pm   #10
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,485
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
That's minor, our cordless 'phones ring for another cycle even after the other party has answered it.
Yes, our Panasonic cordless does that: one of the newer generation of 'two-wire' telephones.

Mrs B. likes that one and it's handy for DTMF but it sits next to my current living room telephone (a 1960 type 710), and it's annoying when I answer the 710 and the cordless is still bonging away.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 11:12 am   #11
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

I'm still rather confused regarding my original question so I've attached a photo of the new master socket wiring and the hall extension, which has not been changed. Does it look right? (sorry about the poor photography)

By the way, our BT Sonus cordless also keeps chirping for a while after the call has been answered on the 706!

Ken
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	New master.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	227694   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hall Extension.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	40.8 KB
ID:	227695   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bedroom extension.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	227696  
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 11:31 am   #12
Scimitar
Heptode
 
Scimitar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 684
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Taylor View Post
I'm still rather confused regarding my original question so I've attached a photo of the new master socket wiring and the hall extension, which has not been changed. Does it look right? (sorry about the poor photography)

By the way, our BT Sonus cordless also keeps chirping for a while after the call has been answered on the 706!

Ken

Wiring is wrong.

Blue/white to 2, White/blue to 5, Orange/white to 3.
Scimitar is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 12:40 pm   #13
Pellseinydd
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 614
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Taylor View Post
I'm still rather confused regarding my original question so I've attached a photo of the new master socket wiring and the hall extension, which has not been changed. Does it look right? (sorry about the poor photography)

By the way, our BT Sonus cordless also keeps chirping for a while after the call has been answered on the 706!

Ken

Wiring is wrong.

Blue/White to 2, White/blue to 5, Green/white to 5.
Blue/White on 2 and White/Blue to 5 as above.

Orange/White should be on 3 on extension sockets.

White/Orange & Green/White & White/Green are not used on residential setups.

See [URL="https://britishtelephones.com/wiring/socketwiring.htm"][URL="https://britishtelephones.com/wiring/socketwiring.htm"][/URL for more info.
Pellseinydd is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 2:05 pm   #14
cheerfulcharlie
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 656
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Looks like white/blue spot in the first picture is not connected by the time it gets to the extension ..you have blue/white spot connected instead
cheerfulcharlie is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 2:59 pm   #15
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Well it seems whoever originally wired the extensions up when the house was built used a different colour code but at least it worked. With the new master socket the BT engineer did it properly. I have now rewired both extensions, but I cannot test it yet as the line has gone dead - due, I hope, to the old number being transferred to the new line.

Thanks for all the advice, I also found this URL helpful: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...e%20Wiring.htm
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 4:13 pm   #16
198 kHz
Triode
 
198 kHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 25
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Taylor View Post
BT Openreach have just been and installed a new master socket (NTE5?).
Just for info - it's an NTE5C, which has superseded the 5A in recent years.
198 kHz is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 4:17 pm   #17
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

OK thanks. Has MK 4 on the cover too.
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 4:41 pm   #18
pip5678
Pentode
 
pip5678's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 101
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

It's a good job you didn't get BT back, might have been expensive!
pip5678 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 5:58 pm   #19
Ken Taylor
Tetrode
 
Ken Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Abingdon on Thames, Oxon, UK.
Posts: 66
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip5678 View Post
It's a good job you didn't get BT back, might have been expensive!
Right! Well the number transfer has completed and we have the line working again. The extensions now work properly, and interestingly, pulse dialing still works. As it is now a Plusnet FTTC line that surprised me.
Ken Taylor is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 6:56 pm   #20
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 5,170
Default Re: Plugging in extension causes main to ring

I'm glad it's all sorted now - and wired to BT conventions, which should cause less confusion in the future.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:08 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.