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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 9:58 pm   #1
AmateurRepairer
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Default What 405 line set to buy?

Hi all

Looking for a 405 line set to buy but what do people recommend.. as in easy to service, valves obtainable at reasonable prices, etc. Must be a tabletop set not freestanding, and preferably no mains eht, Iím not bothered about live chassis as they are not a danger if wired correctly.

Thanks
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 10:04 pm   #2
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

I would recommend Ekco all the time, easy to work on.
12 inch sets come up on a regular basis so look for something like a T161, T141, T221 is a 14 inch round tube. for 9 inch screen TS88, TS105
You will get a variety of suggestions I'm sure.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 10:30 pm   #3
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Ekco do some nice sets - they use good quality controls, not the silly little sliders that Pye and others used that barely last 70 years The snag is they are lumbered with Mazda CRTs, though the 17" rectangular ones seem to be a lot better.

If you want a show piece you occasionally run and takes not too much space then the Bush TV22 is reliable and easy to work on, no exotic valves. If you want something to watch regularly then TBH you want a bigger screen, so a mid-50's 17" Ekco would make a good choice as being the typical box with two controls in the corner they don't fetch very much but give good pictures and there's plenty of them about.

TTFN,
Jon
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 11:35 pm   #4
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Tanks for all the responses.

I will go with an ecko or similar then. Ideally something small screen as I only live in a small room and that is full of radios and other things as well as a gerbil cage and stick insects lol
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 9:09 am   #5
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

I would go for an early 50's single channel set such as a Ferguson, Bush, Pye.
Although Ekco sets are good, they have Mazda CRT's, which from my experience are usually low emission.

I would avoid a TV22 as a first restoration, they are not to bad to work on, but can have problems with the LOPT & blocking transformers.


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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 9:57 am   #6
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Hi AmateurRepairer,
I would actually try to avoid sets with Mazda tubes myself. Now I know that Ekco made good tellies, but I tend to steer clear of them because of the Mazda tubes.

Bush sets use Mullard tubes which are much more reliable. Bush sets are well laid out so easy to repair, but the popular and common TV22 can have some nasty pit falls for the beginner. The much harder to find TV22A doesn't have those drawbacks.

Pye sets also use Mullard tubes. The B18T/LV20 models are easy to find. Pye do use birds nest construction though so digging down to reach that last capacitor you need to change can be a little fiddly with more risk of making mistakes, but by making sure you take lots of detailed photos as you go really helps. I fixing sets with this kind of construction more rewarding.

If you have the room for a 14" mid 50s set then prices will be more, but sets from this period are less pleasing to the eye.

Cheers
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 10:00 am   #7
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Oh yes, Mark pointed out Ferguson, I forgot about them. Anyway I second that, in fact I would probably rate Ferguson above Pye as the international construction is a little neater.

Cheers
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 10:25 am   #8
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Ekco TMB272 is a really good performer, works from mains or 12V and has one of the best 405 line pictures Iíve ever seen. Itís only a 9Ē screen, and uses a Mazda CRT, the one I have looks like a good tube, but then they are a bit of pot luck! The cabinet is a metal thing, covered in green rexine, a bit of a marmite type affair, you either love it or hate it! I may be wrong, but Iím sure the chassis is mains isolated as the set uses a transformer. The other thing to look out for is the LOPT housing decomposing, normally the windings of the transformer are perfectly ok, and you have to fabricate a new housing for it, mine was ok, but another set I have had a badly rotted one.

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Lloyd
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 11:03 am   #9
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beery View Post
Hi AmateurRepairer,
I would actually try to avoid sets with Mazda tubes myself. Now I know that Ekco made good tellies, but I tend to steer clear of them because of the Mazda tubes.
Ekco cant be dubbed that bad Andy, my collection of Ekco tabletop sets totalling 18 and none have bad tubes, with the exception of the T164 with its 15 inch tube that's soft.
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 11:14 am   #10
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
Ekco cant be dubbed that bad Andy, my collection of Ekco tabletop sets totalling 18 and none have bad tubes, with the exception of the T164 with its 15 inch tube that's soft.
Hi Freya,
I call that exceptionally good luck

Cheers
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 12:38 pm   #11
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Having just started my television adventure I cannot advice any particular set. I do have a fondness for the Ekco pictured above they look fairly plentiful on eBay. However it may be the case that you will have to make do with what you can get. From what I have read the television with the mains derived EHT look to be more dangerous for the novice but probably a manageable risk with care. I would probably avoid spending too much money on first set as you may not have the interest or time to continue in the hobby and I doubt paying more gets you a better set. You will probably be saving up for a standard converter anyway. I look forward to hearing about your first restoration I have certainly found television very interesting. Good luck
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 12:58 pm   #12
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Hi!

I can confirm that the TMB272 has a double–wound isolated mains transformer so it's completely safe to work on!

Some of the earlier small–screen KBs have a heater transformer so although live chassis, they're parallel heaters so no horrible droppers to crumble away or go o/c, if you find one of these they're well worth a punt!

Chris Williams
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 2:15 pm   #13
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Steer clear of RUST! This shows that the receiver has been stored under very poor conditions and will have problems with the line output transformer, wound components of all types and rotten valve holders etc. A bashed cabinet is acceptable but one with half the veneer peeling off is a bad sign and it's probably a good idea to move on.

The Ekco T330 series is a good starter. They use one of the better Mazda 17" tubes type CRM173 that is usually OK. They also reactivate, with care, very well.

The chassis access is excellent and very straightforward and all faults are well recorded. You may have to replicate a replacement Paxolin/Perspex case [easy] for the LOPT as the original tends to break down and arc over but the windings themselves are always 100%

Any Ferguson is another candidate. The 992/8 series if you want something 5 channel or the excellent 200 series should fill the bill. The 306T is another robust chassis but it is mounted vertically and might be frustrating when it comes to component replacement due to access being restricted by the CRT bowl.

If we move on a bit the 500/600/700 series are printed circuit and have all the components marked making mistakes less likely. All Mullard valves and tubes in Ferguson chassis with no awkward bits that are difficult to source or replicate.

Receivers with Plessey chassis fitted are also good candidates. Straightforward circuits and good LOPTs. The RGD 'DEEP 17' is another cracking model built on Plessey lines but not by Plessey themselves.

Metal chassis Sobell models from the mid 50s are another good starter. They are straightforward, Mullard valves and tube, excellent LOPTs with good access. They are not Hip, Trendy, or Cult and can be picked up quite cheaply. They give a very good account of themselves.

Hope you find something that is restorable. John.
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 5:34 pm   #14
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

John, you should see the Philips 385U that I’ve got on the bench, that was a rust bucket, and sure enough, it’s been a pig to get going! And the cabinet is knackered too.

I’d certainly not recommend some Philips sets! Especially the 385U, unusual circuitry, and unpleasant rats nest wiring, and odd looking tag strips arranged vertically! Not a nice set to work on..

Regards
Lloyd
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 7:40 pm   #15
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Quote:
Iíd certainly not recommend some Philips sets!
I agree that some of the earlier Philips sets are a real challenge, I particularly dislike those black tar caps that like to short out!

Philips always had their own way of doing things
Although the late 50's sets do have one of the best 405 line pictures you will see.


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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 8:41 pm   #16
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

Yes those tar bombs are great fun!

I agree about the later sets, I also have a 17” 1708U, which is excellent, nice bright and clear picture on that one, and not too difficult to get working, much cleaner under chassis layout too, compared with the 385U. Mine has an annoying intermittent vertical linearity fault at the moment, which I need to investigate!

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Old 24th Feb 2021, 11:38 am   #17
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Default Re: What 405 line set to buy?

One good thing about any Philips product is that it works and always works well. As the comments back up the fact that they are certainly not a good candidate for a starter.

Models with vertical chassis as I mentioned with the Ferguson 306T and many 50s GEC models can be very fiddly to work on. Removal of the tube can help with components that are mounted close to the CRT bowl but it is then difficult to test the chassis between replacements.

GEC made a couple of 6" CRTs that could be fitted in place of the bigger tube giving easy access for servicing. Has anyone got one?

In the early 50s Alba also produced some excellent models that were very easy to work on and again not popular with the cult brigade. All components are well laid out and nicely identified in their service manuals. John.
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