UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 22nd May 2020, 12:35 am   #21
Maarten
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 2,874
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
I had 'inside information' at the time from someone within Philips that having lost the video format wars with both VCR and V2000, that they now planned to build the best VHS sets in order to claim the market. I haven't really followed the story, but funny now to read that they used other companies' decks! Out of interest, did they build a good VHS deck themselves? Or was their modus operandi to use known good decks and add market winning features and performance levels?
Using other companies decks or machines was only occasionaly and to fill gaps in supply and demand or technical specifications.

The only Philips national organisation that consciously opted not to use Philips manufactured recorders was the North American one, the same one that sabotaged (maybe somewhat rightfully, but still) the V2000 system. In case of the Asian and East European market it might have been a logistics issue so Philips chose to have a joint venture with JVC, which they also used for some late high-end models for Western Europe (VR1000-VR1500).

Philips had 3 deck architectures from 1984-2002 and they were all quite revolutionary in their own way, so I think they made good on their promise. The Echo deck was partially based on V2000 development and quite capable though the lift, the idler and the need for lubrication were somewhat weaker points. The Charly deck was a small step back in some aspects but a huge leap forward in others: It was VERY low in height due to its never seen before lift construction, low in parts count, one of the first to use outsert moulding, easy on tape wear and Philips made some extremely compact machines with it (possibly the smallest to date, in 1986/1987). However it wasn't really good for some advanced features and in the beginning it was slow and noisy (this got better over the next 55 or so revisions) so Philips used Panasonic decks in some of the higher end models. Even Panasonic had to make kludges for some advanced features, such as a bolted on motor on their G deck and said G deck may have been very quiet compared to the Charly deck but it was slower, excruciatingly so. Then around 1991 Philips had their first Turbo deck which was conceptually optimised in almost every possible way and continued to be developed into this century (but not by much).

I'm wondering what a Turbo deck would have looked like if it was based upon the Echo deck (evolution instead of revolution).

Last edited by Maarten; 22nd May 2020 at 12:47 am.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2020, 12:38 am   #22
Maarten
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 2,874
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_fivos_sak View Post
Just found out that the original Panasonic model is the PV-S4880. At least it looks identical to that Philips I posted earlier. Why do US/Canadian consumer Panasonic models start with "PV" while on the rest of the world they start with "NV", just like the industrial US/Canadian models?
As far as I know:

PV = Panasonic Video
NV = National Video

Note that this often doesn't correspond with the actual brand name used on the video.

Both were brand names used by Matsushita, who recently rebranded themselves into Panasonic.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2020, 9:58 pm   #23
Pieter H
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Waalre, Netherlands
Posts: 60
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

I've spent quite some time figuring out the Philips VCR history, the results of which are summarized in chapter 4 of my tuner history.
https://www.maximus-randd.com/tv-tun...y-pt4.html#vcr.
The last VCR eruptions are in chapter 5 before it was sold.
https://www.maximus-randd.com/tv-tuner-history-pt4.html#vcr

Below picture tries to give an overview. Admittedly tuner/RF centric, but it is indicated in red when external main components or complete decks were used.

Cheers, Pieter
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tuner generations VCR 1.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	50.5 KB
ID:	206703  
Pieter H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2020, 1:16 am   #24
Maarten
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 2,874
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

I think we may have mailed about it, but you might want to have a closer look on the years of the VRxx60/VRxx61/VRxx62 models as some of those were produced as early as 1984 resp. 1985 even though the year number would have indicated 1986 in the (later?) numbering system.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2020, 11:27 am   #25
Sparks
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 316
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

I know nothing about TV and/or VCR repair but it's obvious through reading these pages that an astonishing amount of badge engineering was going on during the 80s and 90s. Is it still a prevalent practice now ?
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2020, 11:46 am   #26
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,398
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
I know nothing about TV and/or VCR repair but it's obvious through reading these pages that an astonishing amount of badge engineering was going on during the 80s and 90s. Is it still a prevalent practice now ?
Depends on what you call badge engineering. Most stuff these days is built in large CEMs, that's contract electronic manufacturing companies. Quite often these companies do not market goods under their own brand name, but will make goods for many others. There's Vestel in Turkey who make for Panasonic, Toshiba, Hitachi etc etc. Foster of Korea is another. So it's a bit different from the older style of badge engineering where one manufacturing company would buy from another (often a direct competitor) to save them R&D spend or to get them into the marketplace quickly etc etc.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2020, 11:51 am   #27
Maarten
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 2,874
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

It's not that different in my opinion. Vestel owns several brand names and uses its own name as well, though most of their work is probably ODM for third parties in which case Vestel does all the design and R&D, and during customised manufacturing slaps the label on for the brand owner.

I think contract manufacturing is usually meant to indicate situations where the brand owner does most of the R&D but outsources production, for example Apple.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2020, 6:35 pm   #28
Sparks
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 316
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

Thankyou Steve and Maarten. Whichever way you look at badge engineering, it's probably neither possible nor desirable for a manufacturer to be completely self-sufficient.
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2020, 12:34 pm   #29
Maarten
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 2,874
Default Re: Philips VCRs - OEM models

It's certainly possible and it may be desirable. Up to a point anyway. Philips and Samsung are some prevoiously respectively currently succesful examples. Though I know for sure that at least Philips became self sufficient by taking over other companies. Samsung probably as well.

A problem with badge engineering might be reputation damage. Selling Vestel TV sets or Funai video recorders could easily do that to an established brand name.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 1:04 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2020, Paul Stenning.