Technical specifications of consumer electronic equipment.

[Edward Huggins]

It's very nostalgic looking at old Radio/Radiogram adverts and the brochure specifications. Right up to the mid-1980s, most brands gave an impressive amount of detail. Now no longer. In most cases there's little on no detail other than maybe what connectivity is supported. In the absence of this, just try getting any information from the so called "Technical Support" Helplines from, say, Bose or Roberts? In many case they do not understand me, don't know or are not allowed to reveal. I know I'm in a time warp, but how consumer habits have so changed....

[Station X]

You and other forum members can moan about it all you like, but it won't make the slightest difference to what information and support is offered.

[cmjones01]

I can see a couple of good reasons for this.

Firstly, in about the mid 1980s, meeting the customary specifications of audio and video equipment (frequency response, distortion, picture resolution) became so easy that it was no longer worthy of note. Technology and manufacturing had advanced to the point that everything basically worked just fine and the technical details were only of interest to few people - possibly only those developing the products. Impressive specifications no longer led to more sales, so why clutter the marketing material up with them?

Secondly, with the advent of digital technology, the technical specifications got much, much more complicated. Even a mid-1980s CD player will have plenty of features that never made it in to marketing literature or even the manual: does it handle de-emphasis correctly? Does it mute data CDs? What about the SCMS flags? As complexity became cheaper, implemented in software, it became impossible to list all these details.

Moving to today's products, the manufacturer can't even know what the product will do. The most recent "consumer goods" I bought were a couple of Google Chromecast units for connecting our home network to the TV and the kitchen stereo. The nature of the device, using downloadable software, is such that it will gain new features and abilities almost daily throughout its life. In addition, it's so cheap that it can be considered disposable, so there's no point in documenting all the details. In my experience the audio and video signal output from the Chromecast would have been the envy of any quality audio or video device from 30 years ago.

Even for me, as a highly technical consumer (I design this stuff for a living) most of the specifications don't matter. If something is really critical (support for a particular audio format or network protocol, for example) the information is out there somewhere but the manufacturer probably isn't the organisation to ask.

Chris

[Graham G3ZVT]

Someone recently posted about a heavy antique loudspeaker and I was impressed with the honesty of the quoted power handling figure of two or three Watts (IIRC).

These days, Mr Watt's unit as used for loudspeakers and the amplifiers that drive them, is meaningless.

[Vintage Engr]

In a similar vein, way back in the late 60's & early 70's,
I remember I had the nerve to phone Plessey Semiconductors, as I wanted not only a tech spec for one of their early IC's, but also I asked if they could supply a cct diagram, for what went on inside!
They couldn't understand why I needed to know; as far as they were concerned, as long as they told me what went in & what came out at the other end, was all they wanted me to know.

Dave.

[crackle]

I recently made some enquiries with specific questions regarding PSU's for HAM radio to various suppliers and so called manufacturers.
Most simply sent me a reply giving details of their website.
But one supplier, Diamond a company in Japan, was very helpful regarding my query about the mention of "over voltage" protection and confirmed it did not have such and were surprised the English brochures mentioned it. What the PSU did have was a over voltage indicator.
Diamond were very helpful with my further questions and even sent me the user manuals AND schematics for all of their range of PSU's.
They went out of their way to help me understand their products, that was very refreshing and not something I have come across in a long while..
Although I did not buy an item from them as they had nothing suitable in my price bracket, I would recommend them for their honesty and willingness to help.
Mike

[Radio Wrangler]

That is very refreshing to hear, Mike. Duly noted. I like honest companies who treat their customers as intelligent.

I have had a few of their antennae over the years, they have lasted well, worked well, and been sensibly made. Your comments have moved them into preferred brand for me.

This sort of information is worth its weight in gold.

Thanks

David

[lesmw0sec]

Hmm - forgetting technical details, you are lucky these days if you can even locate the English version of the instruction sheet!

[PaulR]

I think that Chris is right.

There seems to be a sort of sequence. Many years ago there were lots of camera shops staffed by young (mostly) men with a vast knowledge of. the stock they sold. They became fewer as cameras became simpler with more automatic and semi automatic features.

There followed Hi-Fi shops staffed similarly with employees who would happily discuss power ratings, frequency response etc. As Hi-Fi with high specs became easier and cheaper to make those shops became more like general electrical retailers and many closed.

Finally there were computer shops where the staff would build a computer for you having discussed what specs you would like and could afford. A computer would last for a few years before ones with much better specs were available. Yours could not be upgraded, so another trip to the shop was called for. Now that ready built computers are available with specs way beyond those that most will need, the smaller specialised shops have mainly closed.

Now we have shops that sell cameras, hi-fi, computers and much more. The staff are still knowledgeable over the range of merchandise but they won't have the in depth knowledge of particular specs of individual items. They don't need to as most of the equipment they sell will perform well perform well above the requirements of most customers. In terms of The Antiques Roadshow there is basic, better and best.

That is really progress, if making the high street less interesting. Equipment that works well had become much cheaper and available. I was looking at an American advert for a radiogram from the late 1920s. It cost $250 excluding tubes!

[Radio Wrangler]

It's a switch of skills in the retail industry.

Once we had camera people, hifi people, computer people. They primarily knew the products and used that knowledge to sell them.

Now we only have salespeople. Their primary skill is in customer handling and up-selling. Any knowledge of products comes not from a deep interest, just some memorised facts from a training session.

Above it all is a modern management theory that if you are a salesman you can sell anything..... yeah, right! just not to me, pal.

I find it very hard to buy something from someone who throws off clues that they haven't got the foggiest, just a script.

David

[Cobaltblue]

I'm afraid I am of a similar persuasion when it comes to sales people.

For people like me on line purchases are a boon I never have to deal with a salesperson.

I recently needed a new TV, I knew what I wanted size, brands, facilities etc but it was nice to just see the actual model in the flesh since it was a major purchase so I ventured into C****s and suffered the onslaught

As I had researched all the models I was interested in it was a bit annoying to be told by the salesman I should consider this or that other set so I simply said do these have built in Freesat?, don't you know?, Not Sure? well they don't hence my choices.

But they have Freeview, yes but I can't get Freeview, no coverage, What's your postcode?, Oh I see no coverage.

At this point I was left alone until another salesperson finding themselves free, started again fortunately by this time I had seen what I wanted and beat a hasty retreat before I was forced to beat a salesperson!

I do appreciate that there are people who need help, good luck getting any though perhaps when entering a store you could be issued with a warning hat salespeople stay away!

I do still find this amusing though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvswW6M7bMo

Cheers

Mike T

[Refugee]

Last time I bought a white appliance from a branded retailer I had to add their domain to my spam list in order to stop them trying to sell me another one of the same.

[McMurdo]

I suppose most detailed specs are meaningless to most modern consumers, so why bother publishing them. The average buyer, IMHO, is more likely to choose a product by colour or shape rather than performance. If it doesn't please them when they get it home, they take it back.

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by Refugee

Last time I bought a white appliance from a branded retailer I had to add their domain to my spam list in order to stop them trying to sell me another one of the same.

Which simultaneously reveals how long they expect their wares to last and how stupid they think their customers are.

Back in the day I always used to give Tandy the address '1601 Pennsylvania ave, District of Columbia, USA' They hadn't a clue but they weren't letting you out of the shop without an address. They seemed quite happy with that one and it didn't cause a flicker of interest.

Since audio went high-end, there never have been any specifications published lest their target market think the products might have been measured, and they full well know that will poison their sonic capabilities

David

[Refugee]

Last time the original white appliance lasted over 15 years and in that time my home made new for old extended warranty had built up the deposit account enough for me to buy a posh replacement right away.
My spam folder was stuffed with blurb about extended warranties.

[Craig Sawyers]

Back in about 1980, I was designing a speaker system for my own use. I planned to use KEF drive units and wrote to them asking for clarification. Imagine my surprise when the lab phone went and KEF's head technical guru Laurie Fincham was on the line. Spent a good half hour talking about drive units, how to integrate them, the impact of driver phase response etc etc. Made a big impression. That was customer support at the highest level.

Astonishingly very much still alive, working at senior level for George Lucas's company THX across in California. http://www.aes.org/events/146/presenters/?ID=8239 . Must be well in his 70's now.

[poppydog]

If manufacturers give too many specs on what they are selling nowadays, the consumer can end up seeing what a load of junk they are about to purchase..


poppydog

[AC/HL]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

Which simultaneously reveals how long they expect their wares to last and how stupid they think their customers are.

Maybe it illustrates what they need to do to keep solvent (present circumstances aside). I'm not sure why anyone is surprised, retail is a treadmill, always was. My Father started in a (clothing as it happens) shop, before the War. Failure to say Sir, or any other platitude was instant dismissal. Fast forward, and the world has changed out of all recognition. Now it's failure to sell extended warranties (which make more than the sale itself) that seals your fate. A drop in overall sales seals everyone's fate. We want cheap, better performance, cheap, features, cheap, lower running costs. That's the price we pay.

[Hartley118]

It occurs to me, as I struggle with my latest attempt to install a WiFi range extender, that the hardware unpredictability of my youth has been totally solved, only to be replaced by software issues, with their special language of IP addresses, SSIDs etc, all of which must now be translated from their native Chinese in the manual.

The particularly difficult aspect of today’s issues is the way that no fix is instant any more. Back in the day, if one replaced a defective capacitor or transistor, the effect was immediate. Nowadays, likely as not, the PC is still showing the problem, even though your action may have fixed it. Give it a reboot and, given a few minutes, it may deign to exhibit the result of your fix. I fear that eventually most of our waking time will be spent waiting for digital equipment to reboot and sort itself out so that we can draw a conclusion about the latest fix.

Martin

P.S. Does anyone know of a WiFi field strength meter with the ability to measure signal to noise ratio? I’m currently being distracted by apparently strong WiFi signals which contain zero useful information! Wish it were helpful to put a scope on it, but it isn’t. It’s a wholly different world.

[Radio Wrangler]

We already see equipment and vehicles scrapped because of software issues where updates are stopped at some point and needed because other things they have to work with have been updated. Hardware you can go in and do things. Circuit diagrams usually become available at least at the end of the product's life. Software is much more heavily protected with copyright lasting far longer than patents, plus the digital millennium act and all that which seem to have no concept of the reasonable life of an item before it needs alternative support.

Sonos speakers, anyone?

David