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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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19th Sep 2018, 3:25 pm | #1 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Speaker cables
First off, if I’m posting on the wrong forum please accept my apologies but on looking through the list I couldn’t find a more apropriate one.
At present I output all my tapedecks and audio kit through a Tascam M50 mixing desk via three Linn LK100 power amps to a pair of Aktiv Kaber loudspeaks. The cable to connect the amps to the speakers is Linn’s own K600 which, if anyone knows this cable will be aware of, is likened to wrestling with an octopus with one hand behind your back! Especially in tight corners. We’ve recently moved home and I’m in the process of sorting out some old kit that I no longer use. I’ve come across some lengths of QED QUDOS BI-WIRE L.F.I. cable I used in a previous life with a pair of bi-wired Ruaurk Templars. It’s in good condition and is far more manageable than the K600. I’m wondering whether it would be viable to swap the cables over. Unfortunately the QED is not terminated with plugs so before taking the trouble to make up 24 plug ends I thought I’d ask here. Has anyone any experience of or recommendations regarding this question. Is it a comparable move to swap them? Any advice would be gratefully received. Mike.
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19th Sep 2018, 4:01 pm | #2 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manchester, UK.
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Re: Speaker cables
Go on, compare the super-thick cable with the cheapest bell wire you can find on ebay (use that term - I just checked and it works). Even better, get a mate to swap it over and don't ask him what one you're listening to. Dare ya
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19th Sep 2018, 4:10 pm | #3 |
Rest in Peace
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Re: Speaker cables
Speaker cable needs to be adequately low resistance, and not too unusual in capacitance and inductance. Almost all cables will do, including cable sold for power wiring. Exceptions are very cheap or thin cable, and some very expensive cable.
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19th Sep 2018, 4:14 pm | #4 |
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Re: Speaker cables
It's obviously up to you how you choose to spend your time and money, and how you configure your equipment. However, must people here would argue that it's completely pointless to use expensive ultra thick speaker cable in a domestic environment. I wouldn't advocate bell wire, but I find twin core mains cable scavenged from scrap vacuum cleaners works very well.
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19th Sep 2018, 4:23 pm | #5 |
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Re: Speaker cables
I have used multi strand 'speaker wire for only one (two!) reason, it is very flexible and flat. For places where the two above are not required I agree with Paul, any mains rated cable will suffice, free is even better. Mind you orange lawn mower wire can clash with interior decor.
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19th Sep 2018, 4:32 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
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Re: Speaker cables
I hope the OP will take with good humour some of the comments here - speaker wire within this Forum is something of a provocative topic as it can traverse into what's ironically referred to as, er, "Audiophool" territory!
If I were you, I would make good use of that good quality QED KUDOS bi-wire cable and terminate all those connectors just as you plan.
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19th Sep 2018, 4:50 pm | #7 |
Octode
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Re: Speaker cables
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19th Sep 2018, 5:08 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 4,942
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Re: Speaker cables
Cambridge Audio was originally founded by my good friend and work colleague Gordon Edge in the late '60s, RIP. He was the designer of the original Design Award winning P40. Since then Cambridge Audio has gone bust on many, many occasions. But is now in the safe hands of Julian Richer of Richer Sounds. And not in the hands of the Chinese.
I'm glad to see the dose of sense on their website regarding cables. There are some caveats, but I have more sense than to voice them here ;-) Some years ago, I could not resist buying an original P40, which cost me £40. Still looks stunning, works perfectly after replacement of a few of the 50 year old electrolytics, sounds superb, and a testimony to "if you do it right in the first place" it stands the test of time. Craig |
19th Sep 2018, 5:13 pm | #9 |
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Re: Speaker cables
The human mind is remarkably suggestible. People are led to look at speaker cables as if they were carrying mechanical energy. They are not. What can carry electrical energy with good efficiency and over a very wide range of frequencies doesn't have to look mechanically hunky. However, a lot of money can be pried from people who can be led into thinking intuitively in this way.
One thing we can be confident of is that the non-ideal aspects of cables gets worse with increasing frequency. Some people work with cables at extremely high frequencies - I've been involved with transmitters producing 300W at 1GHz, and lower power carried by wire, not waveguide, to several tens of GHz. I've been involved with detecting signals down to the quantum-mechanical noise floors of things just several degrees above absolute zero. I've learned that lower frequency signals rapidly get easier to convey. Down at audio frequencies it's easy to make some general cable loss with very thin conductors, but you have to do something impressible silly in order to create an audible effect. It takes a lot of confidence and independence to reject the calling of the emperor's new clothes given the amount of repetition there is of old wive's tales, but it is a liberating experience. The danger is that people who subscribe to mythologies have for millennia attacked those who believe differently. They see them as a threat. You can thin down your speaker cables, but you may have to develop a thicker skin 2.5 square mm is plenty. That old 79 strand stuff is positively overkill. There are magazines, websites, shops telling people that if they've 'invested' £XXXXX in boxes, then they should spend a specified fraction of that on cables. This is pure bunkum. There is a tendency to believe that something big and awkward to use must repay the effort it consumes by having advantages in other areas. This is the old "It tastes bad so it must be doing you good" theory. Yeah, right. If you connect it all up with cheap flex, the back of your head will tell you it must sound different. Use your ears and not your expectations. David
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19th Sep 2018, 6:48 pm | #10 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Re: Speaker cables
So obviously I have poked the nest of the aged cynics society. As an active member myself I’m well aware of the superior audiophools “I’ve spent a small fortune on snake oil and charms so it must sound good” school of thought.
Now to continue in the same enquiring vein — Banana Plugs — to solder or to screw. Which is the best solution?
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19th Sep 2018, 6:56 pm | #11 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bristol, UK.
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Re: Speaker cables
I am sure there are some people who can actually hear the money they spend....which is just as well, bearing in mind the cost of some of this stuff! I will always solder - unless I'm in a hurry (then I am just as likely to jam the ends in with matchsticks!).
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19th Sep 2018, 7:02 pm | #12 | |
Heptode
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Re: Speaker cables
Quote:
Other than that, but the ones that will accept the size of cable you're using, at a price you like and which look nice. Gold plated ones will offer a slightly better connection and are less likely to tarnish Oops, sorry; I'm straying dangerously close to "audiophool" territory there - don't shoot me. |
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19th Sep 2018, 7:15 pm | #13 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK.
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Re: Speaker cables
Quote:
John |
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19th Sep 2018, 7:29 pm | #14 |
Moderator
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Re: Speaker cables
The only problem with banana plugs is they're likely to pull out of the socket if you're not careful. If they both pull out then you may get a damaging short circuit. I still use them despite this risk because they're convenient.
Just to clarify, I don't think anyone commenting here is suggesting that people buying exotic speaker cables are necessarily idiots. Some people get a lot of pleasure out of buying 'the best', and if they think it sounds better then it does (to them). Some people like to buy Le Creuset cookware or big four wheel drive cars. Each to their own, it's their money to spend on whatever they want. |
19th Sep 2018, 8:09 pm | #15 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Re: Speaker cables
Quote:
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19th Sep 2018, 8:38 pm | #16 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Re: Speaker cables
No offence intended, I’m just practising my ‘Albert’s stick with the horse’s head handle’ game. (Now hands up all those who remember that one, especially with Stanley Holloway.)
I think I’ll tin and screw. I’ll be back and let you know how I get on. Ps. I’m partial to a bit of quality gear myself. Linn, Quad, Studer, etc
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19th Sep 2018, 9:13 pm | #17 |
Octode
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Re: Speaker cables
Hi Linnovice
Donald here from the Linn Forum (currently closed!) - welcome to my world! Of course I use Linn K400 between my power amps and speakers and have used banana plugs with grub screws as recommended by my Linn dealer - no they are not more expensive as a consequence. If I do need to remove the plugs for any reason e.g. annual spring clean of all terminals, then I'm careful to pull the plugs and not the cable. The K400 runs under my floorboards so is largely unseen so you will gather it was not purchased as fancy cable to set off my Linn gear but it is the most transparent of the many cables I have tried over the years e.g. Chord, Van Damme. Be careful as you seem to have roused the bell wire cognoscenti from their slumbers ...!
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19th Sep 2018, 9:24 pm | #18 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
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Re: Speaker cables
Quote:
If you're going to screw it DON'T tin it! The solder will creep under pressure and you'll end up with a bad connection. If you want to be seriously perfectionist, crimp on a suitable ferrule to ensure all the strands stay in the right place.
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19th Sep 2018, 9:28 pm | #19 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: Speaker cables
I'm glad you got there before me! I was just typing out the same point regarding solder creeping under pressure.
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19th Sep 2018, 10:00 pm | #20 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Posts: 386
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Re: Speaker cables
To go back to the beginning, seriously. At present I’m using K600 cable terminated with Nakamichi double screw banana plugs. Unfortunately, I have carpet over concrete floors so no chance of burying them under the floor. I’ve had this system for a number of years now and, in truth, I’m very happy with it. But it’s been a long time since I was able to make any comparisons. As I’m imminently going to be changing things around that’s what started me wondering about changing the cables.
Probably I’ll finish up down the gym pumping some iron before moving the K600, at 70years not a pretty sight. Why do they always put the mirrors where you can see yourself? . . . where have all the years gone. Ok, now, where did I put that Stanley Holloway . . . Sam! Sam! Pick up thy . . .
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