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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 10:35 am   #21
Bufo Bill
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Thanks for the link Craig. That's quite a resource you've put me on to!
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 7:30 pm   #22
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Okay, I have come up with a plan, which I would like to run past you all. I will buy a blank PCB, the copper side of which will make up my ground plane (hope that's spelled correctly). I feel like with all the advice you have given to me so far, the dead bug method may be the best way for me to prototype the layout. I thought perhaps I could build the final version on the Fibreglass side of a PCB blank for a more rugged construction, drilling through for the ground connections to be soldered to our copper ground plane.
So what do you chaps think? Viable plan? Or off my rocker?
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 8:19 pm   #23
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Okay, I have come up with a plan, which I would like to run past you all. I will buy a blank PCB, the copper side of which will make up my ground plane (hope that's spelled correctly). I feel like with all the advice you have given to me so far, the dead bug method may be the best way for me to prototype the layout. I thought perhaps I could build the final version on the Fibreglass side of a PCB blank for a more rugged construction, drilling through for the ground connections to be soldered to our copper ground plane.
So what do you chaps think? Viable plan? Or off my rocker?
Cheers from Bill.



Hi Bill,
In my eyes a no. It will make your life very difficult and lead to no flexibility at all, and unnecessary , if it is all on the copper plane, you can move things about as you wish EASILY.
I however get your drift, but I would jump from copper plane prototype to PCB design.

If it was me, I would have the basic work on one board and the individual EQ sections on another board connected with thin colour coded wires, or coloured ribbon cable would be better, the complexity of the design may drive you nuts otherwise, your EQ unit is not an easy undertaking at any skill level.

The first stage for me would be to place all chips etc. on some graph paper and play about with the positioning until it all starts to look and feel right. This is essentially what you would do with PCB design anyway, but much more intuitive to the eye and brain.
The key is patience, patience and yet more patience.

Everyone has different ways to approach this, it is all down to what works for you.
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Last edited by Cruisin Marine; 22nd Feb 2023 at 8:26 pm.
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Old 22nd Feb 2023, 11:59 pm   #24
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Thanks. Will get out the graph paper and give it a go.
Thanks from Bill.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 12:42 am   #25
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

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Originally Posted by Bufo Bill View Post
Okay, I have come up with a plan, which I would like to run past you all. I will buy a blank PCB, the copper side of which will make up my ground plane (hope that's spelled correctly). I feel like with all the advice you have given to me so far, the dead bug method may be the best way for me to prototype the layout. I thought perhaps I could build the final version on the Fibreglass side of a PCB blank for a more rugged construction, drilling through for the ground connections to be soldered to our copper ground plane.
So what do you chaps think? Viable plan? Or off my rocker?
Cheers from Bill.
I've been doing it entirely over the copper, no drilling, for many years. Plastic/ceramic DIP ICs go upside down with superglue or a snippet of double sided tape.

TO-99 opamp cans are not floating, so need an insulating Kapton washer and glue.

When sticking IC down remember to mark pin 1, cos the dot will be on the unseen side. Remember pin counting is as seen undersidem not topside.

You can crack things loose and move them around if necessary.

Having a supply of sleevein and tinned copper wire helps.

David
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 1:18 am   #26
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Jim Williams was the author of many superb applications notes from Linear Technology inc. Highly recommended reading. LT (as also in LT Spice!) got taken over by Analog Devices, so LT stuff can be found via ADI's website. There was a sort of farewell doo for Jim rather than a formal funeral. To compound the loss to the electronics community, Rob Pease died on his way home when his beloved Beetle left the road and went down a canyon. Rob was National Semiconductor's analogue guru, and boy did he act up to it.

There were some interesting characters around in those days.

David
Williams and others used to play jokes on each other. The two I can remember Williams doing was routing a small plastic tube in the middle of a colleagues lash up circuit, and every now and again puffing a little smoke down it. Drove the guy nuts trying to find the part that was smoking hot. This was revenge for a stunt that the guy pulled on Williams.

Or the boss's accurate clock, that he made a big show of. So Williams put a different crystal in and made it run fast. Then another to make it run slow. He reckoned the most difficult one was to make it run backwards, which involved profiling the pole pieces in the motor.

Lots of anecdotes on the web.

Craig
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 6:41 am   #27
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Closer to home is the old guy "Radiofun 232" who used be with Philips in Holland and is now something of a cult on "YouTube" (over 14,000 followers). He builds using either with Manhattan or pin-mounted bread-boards. He's got hundreds of posts on YouTube, often quite small projects. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J_ppNyJWbU. I think he sells indexes of the projects for a nominal fee.

B
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 8:49 pm   #28
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Hi guys, thanks for your interest. Just a quick update: I am at the building stage but progress is slow, I have never built a dead bug style build before, and this is no simple "egg-timer circuit," as David says. Progress will probably be slow, but I'll keep at it and let you know if I have any success.
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 10:03 pm   #29
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Good luck Bill, I am rooting for ya pal. I am sure you will crack it.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 1:30 am   #30
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

I keep reading words to the effect of "proper lead dress is vital", but never explain what you should be doing to make your leads well dressed. Can anyonegive me some advice or pointers on this topic?

Getting this thing down to a size that would fit in a large project box is a nightmare with the dead bug approach. I might never have started this if I knew then that Veroboard was not a good option.

Nearly ready to test the circuit though, maybe a few hours more work. That will be spread over a couple of weeks though, so don't hold your breath.
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 2:01 am   #31
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

That phrase "proper lead dress is vital" is something I've never heard before in ~50 years. Can only guess at what it might mean.

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Old 14th Mar 2023, 5:36 pm   #32
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Bazz I don't know what it means and never heard it/read it before this project. I think I read it in the National Semiconductors handbook (1977). It's been buzzing around my brain for a day or two.
Cheers for the rapid response, Insomniacs Anonymous meeting anyone?
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 8th May 2023, 5:27 pm   #33
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The dead bug route has not been kind to me. I am wondering about getting a custom board made for me. I have looked into making my own, but I haven't got the equipment to make one, nor the software to design one. I doubt I am the only one having to watch the pennies right now either, so 'nuff said there. Does anyone know someone who does this sort of work? I could be persuaded to cough up enough for maybe one board.
I thought I might put an advert in the services required section.
I might not have started this had I known veroboard was not a good option.
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 8th May 2023, 6:32 pm   #34
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

You don't have to use software to design a PCB Bill. Software will do it faster (though you have a put time into learning to use the software) and better, but I've never used any software. The old fashioned way was to just evolve a design by trial and error on paper and then transfer that to the board using a good marker pen; Dalo were the best but are no longer available, but other makes have proved adequate. There are still a few of us who can etch a board in ferric chloride.

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Old 8th May 2023, 8:04 pm   #35
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

Thanks B, I'm on my sick bed ATM, I might see if I can work something out while I'm not up to working on live circuits!
Cheers from Bill.
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Old 9th May 2023, 12:57 am   #36
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Default Re: Help with EQ Build

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Originally Posted by Bufo Bill View Post
I keep reading words to the effect of "proper lead dress is vital", but never explain what you should be doing to make your leads well dressed. Can anyone give me some advice or pointers on this topic?
It sounds like keeping input and output cables separate, screened and not of excessive length, and keeping supply rails short - that sort of thing. Sensible layout, in short.
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Old 10th May 2023, 1:25 pm   #37
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Ted. Useful to know.
Cheers from Bill.
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