Pye 9104T - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Darren-UK · 12th May 2006, 10:02 pm

I've got a dinky little Pye 9104T cassette recorder in which all the drive belts have degenerated to a nasty, sticky black mess.

Long shot I know, but would anyone happen to know the sizes of the required belts so I can replace them ?

Failing that, I'm thinking of winding some cord/string round the pulleys and then measuring the length to calculate the diameter. Having done this, I would then buy some new belts to slightly smaller diameters than those of the lengths of string. How smaller though ? for example, if the string test gave a diameter of, say, 30mm, how smaller diameter would the proper belt need to be ? Hope you all get the gist of what I'm bumbling on about

Paul Stenning · 12th May 2006, 10:23 pm

Seems like a sensible way of doing it to me. I would straighten the string, measure it and divide by PI (3.142) to get the diameter, as it's more accurate than trying to lay the string loop in a circle.

Darren-UK · 12th May 2006, 10:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Stenning

Seems like a sensible way of doing it to me. I would straighten the string, measure it and divide by PI (3.142) to get the diameter, as it's more accurate than trying to lay the string loop in a circle.

Yes, that is exactly what I plan to do. You worded it more straightforward than I did Paul

dazzlevision · 13th May 2006, 6:53 am

Hello,

I think your machine is a clone of the Philips EL3302 (Philips controlled Pye of Cambridge by the time your recorder was made).

If I'm correct, you have two belts - one small and one much larger (which connects the motor to the main capstan flywheel and the take-up spool clutch). They are of square cross section (1.2mm x 1.2mm).

I use belts with diameters of 71mm and 21mm.

Regards,

Dazzlevision

Ed_Dinning · 13th May 2006, 8:40 am

Hi Darren, there are available a series of "O" ring kits from industrial suppliers as well as RS etc. These contain lengths of various diameter of "belt" material, it is sometimes possible to get square section as well. The kit has a cutting jig and an instant adhesive, all you need to replicate belts.

HTH ED

yestertech · 13th May 2006, 11:02 am

Dazzlevision is correct re 'clone' - The "belt guide" I have issued by CES in 1972 lists
EL3302 = PYE 9104 = STELLA ST473
no specs for the belt, but the orig PNs were :
DRIVE 358.30076
WIND/REW 358.30077

There may just be someone, somewhere with some old stock

Andy

PS both appear to be listed here, assuming its the right item ?? >>>> http://www.fibra-brandt.com/

dazzlevision · 13th May 2006, 1:35 pm

Hello Again.

The belts I described in my previous post to this thread are readily available from the likes of CPC at Preston or SEME-Nedis at Melton Mowbray.

My concern about "new old stock" genuine Philips spare belts is will they turn to goo quickly, when installed (if they haven't started to already in their plastic storage bags)?

Regards,

Dazzlevision

Darren-UK · 13th May 2006, 11:18 pm

Thanks for all the comments so far

Regarding the Philips connection, the only real clue to this is that the instruction book (which came with the machine) is 'Printed in Holland'. It seems, too, that Philips/Pye went to some lengths to inform the public that the machine was made in Austria 'for and on behalf of Pye Ltd'.

To the above end, there's a prominent label stuck on one side of the machines case to that effect, furthermore there's the large metal label (seen on the front) which also makes clear the Austrian origins. Where this metal label should be I haven't yet discovered, I just laid it on the front of the machine for purposes of the photograph. From all this I presume Philips had a manufacturing facility in Austria.

Regarding the belts, there are indeed two. Of the two attached images, one shows the chassis - and the goo which was once drive belts can clearly be seen. The rubber 'tyre' around the pulley which is driven from the flywheel has, by contrast, survived unscathed. Different material I suppose.

A peep at Maplins website reveals that they sell a limited selection of cassette recorder belts (£1.99 each). I'm fortunate that I live just a few minutes from a Maplins so-called 'superstore' but if there's none suitable there I'll try the other places as suggested.

Nickthedentist · 13th May 2006, 11:40 pm

The pictures confirm it's definitely an EL3302 clone

dazzlevision · 14th May 2006, 6:39 am

Hello,

The large "for and on behalf of ....." label is usually stuck on the rear of the case (that's where I recall them being).

Philips did indeed have a very big factory in Vienna, Austria, where they made audio tape recorders and later switched production to VCRs. I think it is now closed or "in greatly reduced circumstances"!

Interestingly enough, the very earliest Philips battery only cassette recorders - the EL3300 and EL3301 were made in at least three countries - Austria, Holland and England. Perhaps the Vienna factory was not in full swing until the mid-1960s.

I think the acquisition of Pye by Philips may have spelt the end for Philips' range of "Stella" branded "clones".

Regards,

Dazzlevision

mitajohn · 14th May 2006, 10:02 am

Hi all,

I own one of these legendary Philips EL3301, after their invention of compact cassette, since 1963, in very good working order. Yours is definitely a clone of this. I can measure the belts and post the info here if its needed. But if you find a similar belt, you can adjust the tape speed with the trimmer on the pcb in front of the flywheel.

John.

mitajohn · 14th May 2006, 10:34 am

By the way the drive belt has the Philips original code number: 4822 175 01126. The small one, for the tape winding, has the original code number: 4822 163 00915.

John.

Michael Maurice · 14th May 2006, 12:12 pm

I was given an EL3302 in 1969 for my 12th Birthday.

The EL3300 is not the same as the EL3302.

The EL3300 used Germanium transistors and didn't have a speed control, interestingly it didn't have 'record protect' mechanism either.

The EL3302 used silicon transistors and a small PCB had the motor speed regulator circuit. There was record protection built into this machine.

The difference is shown in the underside of the two machines.

An article charting the development of the cassette system (written by me) is featured in the May issue of Technology @ Home, www.technology-at-home.co.uk

Michael

Paul Stenning · 14th May 2006, 3:19 pm

Actually there are more variations than that.

The EL3302A/15 uses all germanium transistors (AC125/126/127/128) whereas the EL3302A/15G uses a mix of germanium and silicon (4 silicon BC148 etc and 5 germanium incl AC187/188 for the output). I have service data for both variants.

The earlier EL3300 is distinguisable by having a round record button (and no record protect thing for the tab on the top of the tape, as mentioned) whereas the EL3302 has a rectangular button. The EL3300 has an all-germanium circuit very similar (maybe identical) to the EL3302A/15 but (as mentioned) without the speed control which is on a separate PCB in the EL3302.

mitajohn · 14th May 2006, 7:15 pm

Well for your info, the EL3301 I own since 1963, has the pcb for tape speed adjustment, the red round record button, the cassette record protection tab and all germanium transistors in its circuitry, it was made in Austria.

John

reelguy · 14th May 2006, 10:45 pm

I have a EL3300 and a EL3301. The EL3300 has a round WHITE record button and the EL3301 has the round RED record button .And as Paul said, The EL3300 doesn't have the record protect tab.
I had a look inside both m/cs earlier and found the belts have turned to Goo. Another job for the to do list.Provided I can find belts.
Peter W Reelguy

I have the service info for the EL3301.
PS.. I have seen these M/cs come up on EBAY but they do not fetch much due people not being aware of the fact that they started the cassette revolution {If thats the right word?} and the slow death of Reel to Reel recorders..........

.

12th May 2006, 10:02 pm	#1
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Pye 9104T I've got a dinky little Pye 9104T cassette recorder in which all the drive belts have degenerated to a nasty, sticky black mess. Long shot I know, but would anyone happen to know the sizes of the required belts so I can replace them ? Failing that, I'm thinking of winding some cord/string round the pulleys and then measuring the length to calculate the diameter. Having done this, I would then buy some new belts to slightly smaller diameters than those of the lengths of string. How smaller though ? for example, if the string test gave a diameter of, say, 30mm, how smaller diameter would the proper belt need to be ? Hope you all get the gist of what I'm bumbling on about

12th May 2006, 10:23 pm	#2
Paul Stenning Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cardiff Posts: 9,073	Re: Pye 9104T Seems like a sensible way of doing it to me. I would straighten the string, measure it and divide by PI (3.142) to get the diameter, as it's more accurate than trying to lay the string loop in a circle. __________________ Paul Stenning Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster

13th May 2006, 6:53 am	#4
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,623	Re: Pye 9104T Hello, I think your machine is a clone of the Philips EL3302 (Philips controlled Pye of Cambridge by the time your recorder was made). If I'm correct, you have two belts - one small and one much larger (which connects the motor to the main capstan flywheel and the take-up spool clutch). They are of square cross section (1.2mm x 1.2mm). I use belts with diameters of 71mm and 21mm. Regards, Dazzlevision

13th May 2006, 8:40 am	#5
Ed_Dinning Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 8,196	Re: Pye 9104T Hi Darren, there are available a series of "O" ring kits from industrial suppliers as well as RS etc. These contain lengths of various diameter of "belt" material, it is sometimes possible to get square section as well. The kit has a cutting jig and an instant adhesive, all you need to replicate belts. HTH ED

13th May 2006, 11:02 am	#6
yestertech Nonode Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Coulsdon, Surrey, UK. Posts: 2,135	Re: Pye 9104T Dazzlevision is correct re 'clone' - The "belt guide" I have issued by CES in 1972 lists EL3302 = PYE 9104 = STELLA ST473 no specs for the belt, but the orig PNs were : DRIVE 358.30076 WIND/REW 358.30077 There may just be someone, somewhere with some old stock Andy PS both appear to be listed here, assuming its the right item ?? >>>> http://www.fibra-brandt.com/ Last edited by yestertech; 13th May 2006 at 11:07 am.

13th May 2006, 1:35 pm	#7
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,623	Re: Pye 9104T Hello Again. The belts I described in my previous post to this thread are readily available from the likes of CPC at Preston or SEME-Nedis at Melton Mowbray. My concern about "new old stock" genuine Philips spare belts is will they turn to goo quickly, when installed (if they haven't started to already in their plastic storage bags)? Regards, Dazzlevision

13th May 2006, 11:18 pm	#8
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Pye 9104T Thanks for all the comments so far Regarding the Philips connection, the only real clue to this is that the instruction book (which came with the machine) is 'Printed in Holland'. It seems, too, that Philips/Pye went to some lengths to inform the public that the machine was made in Austria 'for and on behalf of Pye Ltd'. To the above end, there's a prominent label stuck on one side of the machines case to that effect, furthermore there's the large metal label (seen on the front) which also makes clear the Austrian origins. Where this metal label should be I haven't yet discovered, I just laid it on the front of the machine for purposes of the photograph. From all this I presume Philips had a manufacturing facility in Austria. Regarding the belts, there are indeed two. Of the two attached images, one shows the chassis - and the goo which was once drive belts can clearly be seen. The rubber 'tyre' around the pulley which is driven from the flywheel has, by contrast, survived unscathed. Different material I suppose. A peep at Maplins website reveals that they sell a limited selection of cassette recorder belts (£1.99 each). I'm fortunate that I live just a few minutes from a Maplins so-called 'superstore' but if there's none suitable there I'll try the other places as suggested. Attached Thumbnails

13th May 2006, 11:40 pm	#9
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,866	Re: Pye 9104T The pictures confirm it's definitely an EL3302 clone

14th May 2006, 6:39 am	#10
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,623	Re: Pye 9104T Hello, The large "for and on behalf of ....." label is usually stuck on the rear of the case (that's where I recall them being). Philips did indeed have a very big factory in Vienna, Austria, where they made audio tape recorders and later switched production to VCRs. I think it is now closed or "in greatly reduced circumstances"! Interestingly enough, the very earliest Philips battery only cassette recorders - the EL3300 and EL3301 were made in at least three countries - Austria, Holland and England. Perhaps the Vienna factory was not in full swing until the mid-1960s. I think the acquisition of Pye by Philips may have spelt the end for Philips' range of "Stella" branded "clones". Regards, Dazzlevision

14th May 2006, 10:02 am	#11
mitajohn Pentode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 197	Re: Pye 9104T Hi all, I own one of these legendary Philips EL3301, after their invention of compact cassette, since 1963, in very good working order. Yours is definitely a clone of this. I can measure the belts and post the info here if its needed. But if you find a similar belt, you can adjust the tape speed with the trimmer on the pcb in front of the flywheel. John. Last edited by mitajohn; 14th May 2006 at 10:09 am.

14th May 2006, 10:34 am	#12
mitajohn Pentode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 197	Re: Pye 9104T By the way the drive belt has the Philips original code number: 4822 175 01126. The small one, for the tape winding, has the original code number: 4822 163 00915. John.

14th May 2006, 12:12 pm	#13
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,230	Re: Pye 9104T I was given an EL3302 in 1969 for my 12th Birthday. The EL3300 is not the same as the EL3302. The EL3300 used Germanium transistors and didn't have a speed control, interestingly it didn't have 'record protect' mechanism either. The EL3302 used silicon transistors and a small PCB had the motor speed regulator circuit. There was record protection built into this machine. The difference is shown in the underside of the two machines. An article charting the development of the cassette system (written by me) is featured in the May issue of Technology @ Home, www.technology-at-home.co.uk Michael Attached Thumbnails

14th May 2006, 3:19 pm	#14
Paul Stenning Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cardiff Posts: 9,073	Re: Pye 9104T Actually there are more variations than that. The EL3302A/15 uses all germanium transistors (AC125/126/127/128) whereas the EL3302A/15G uses a mix of germanium and silicon (4 silicon BC148 etc and 5 germanium incl AC187/188 for the output). I have service data for both variants. The earlier EL3300 is distinguisable by having a round record button (and no record protect thing for the tab on the top of the tape, as mentioned) whereas the EL3302 has a rectangular button. The EL3300 has an all-germanium circuit very similar (maybe identical) to the EL3302A/15 but (as mentioned) without the speed control which is on a separate PCB in the EL3302. __________________ Paul Stenning Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster

14th May 2006, 7:15 pm	#15
mitajohn Pentode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 197	Re: Pye 9104T Well for your info, the EL3301 I own since 1963, has the pcb for tape speed adjustment, the red round record button, the cassette record protection tab and all germanium transistors in its circuitry, it was made in Austria. John

14th May 2006, 10:45 pm	#16
reelguy Heptode Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bexhill on Sea, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 746	Re: Pye 9104T I have a EL3300 and a EL3301. The EL3300 has a round WHITE record button and the EL3301 has the round RED record button .And as Paul said, The EL3300 doesn't have the record protect tab. I had a look inside both m/cs earlier and found the belts have turned to Goo. Another job for the to do list.Provided I can find belts. Peter W Reelguy I have the service info for the EL3301. PS.. I have seen these M/cs come up on EBAY but they do not fetch much due people not being aware of the fact that they started the cassette revolution {If thats the right word?} and the slow death of Reel to Reel recorders.......... .