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Old 4th Jan 2021, 11:30 pm   #1
jayellis
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Default Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

I’m refurbishing a Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed and need to repaint. The original is flaking and there’s a hole drilled where the label usually goes. Unfortunately said hole wouldn’t be entirely covered by a replacement label. Does anyone know of a good match for the original paint?
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Old 5th Jan 2021, 12:43 am   #2
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

I think they were in silver-hammer stove enamel. A R Sugden was in Brighouse, and not too far away in the same town was a firm called Stove Enamelers ltd who I used to refinish and bake an AR88 panel and cabinet. I think they did the painting for Sugden's. However, I think the enamelers closed some years ago when the recycled mill building they had part of was burned down.

The stoved stuff is a much harder finish than room temperature hammerite.

Spray can silver Hammerite may be the closest you can get at home unless you have a spray gun and compressor, then you can spray hammerite thinned out more than the aerosols have it... this gives a finer finish, but the thinners are not easy to find.

Some powder coating firms can do a finer finish than you usually associate with the process.

You'll never get a good enough match to blend, so you'll have to redo the full thing, so exact matching becomes less important.

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Old 5th Jan 2021, 9:55 am   #3
jayellis
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Thanks David.

That’s a lot of good information. I wasn’t expecting to match that well but I didn’t think a can of hammerite would give a good enough finish either. Powder coating could be an option… I hadn’t thought of that.

Cheers
Jay
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Old 5th Jan 2021, 1:32 pm   #4
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Not sure about the enamelling theory. The attached 'photo is lifted from a thread last year about one these decks which was rescued from a skip. It's not conclusive evidence but it looks to me like you're dealing with paint rather than enamel. This could be good news because if it is paint it'll be much easier to strip the top plate back to bare metal and it should be possible to produce a decent enough finish with sprayed Hammerite. Hammerite thinners are not that hard to find at a price. With regard to the hole, unless you can weld (or know someone who can) I'd go for using car body filler supported by mesh.

Alan
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Old 5th Jan 2021, 4:34 pm   #5
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

That does indeed look like chemically attacked paint rather than true enamel. It might be a low-bake stuff that gets a harder finish in less time than air-dried stuff can do.

Hammerite sprayed carefully ought to get you there, and if you don't like the result first time you can clear it and have another go. It stays soft for quite a while, so some gentle heat will help harden it off.

Sussex is a bit too far even in normal circumstances, but I have TIG facilities. How big is the hole?

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Old 6th Jan 2021, 7:34 am   #6
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

How neat is the hole, you could fit an aluminium disk of the same size, glued in and then smoothed with car filler.

Peter
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Old 6th Jan 2021, 9:55 am   #7
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Long term, you'll probably get a paint crack where the plug meets the hole just from thermal creepage, if the two things aren't fused.

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Old 7th Jan 2021, 3:22 pm   #8
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
That does indeed look like chemically attacked paint rather than true enamel. It might be a low-bake stuff that gets a harder finish in less time than air-dried stuff can do.

Hammerite sprayed carefully ought to get you there, and if you don't like the result first time you can clear it and have another go. It stays soft for quite a while, so some gentle heat will help harden it off.

Sussex is a bit too far even in normal circumstances, but I have TIG facilities. How big is the hole?

David
Thanks for the offer… it would be rather a hike down

Here's the offender. I was wondering about those aluminium welding rods to fill it with.
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Old 7th Jan 2021, 9:45 pm   #9
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

How "original" do you need it to look? A "portrait" rather than "landscape" format label in the style of the original would cover the hole and still clear that inconvenient screw.

Or perhaps upset the rivet counters by changing the screw to a countersunk one, allowing the label to be placed over the hole?

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Old 8th Jan 2021, 5:14 pm   #10
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

I'd like it to look original. Moving the label down will just look like I'm trying to hide something. I'd know I was trying to hide something every time I used it. I do have a label… although it's black rather than white which it should be.
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Old 8th Jan 2021, 8:20 pm   #11
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Those aluminium 'welding' rods are really a soldering process. They have a much lower melting point in reach of gas blowlamps. If you made a well-fitting aluminium plug it would be a great process for you and could be used like body solder for building up as needed.

I tried some of these rods at a demo-booth in the exhibition messe at Friedrichshaven. As it was their annual aero event, not the amateur radio one, passers by weren't too interested, thinking of the consequences of failure in an aircraft. For just joining non-critical, low stress things, give them a whirl.

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Old 13th Jan 2021, 10:41 am   #12
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Thanks David. The ads for the rods include footage of hole fitting. I doubt the temperature needed would have any effect of the base plate so it seems like a good option.

I too wouldn't be keen on using them to hold the wings on.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 5:26 pm   #13
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Jay,

Could I ask a question concerning the Sugden Connaisseur turntable that is not directly related to your post please?

I need to restore one of these turntables but have been unable to find a source of the anti-vibration mounting bushes. All those I've found are much too stiff. Do you know of a source of the correct type please?

PMM
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 5:39 pm   #14
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

So glad you asked me PMM. As it’s question I can answer… there are many I cannot

There’s a thread over at Lenco heaven about just this. I don’t have a link for it right now but as a result I found this supplier:

https://www.avproductsinc.com/cylind...tp-mounts.html

They’re metric so you will have to file the holes a little to fit.

There’s also these:

https://www.vibrationmounts.com/

I believe the neoprene version is about the same firmness as the original.

Currently all the mounts on mine are still serviceable but I bookmarked them for future reference.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 8:05 pm   #15
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

As you’re going to paint it - why not use epoxy filler, smooth it over and paint.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 8:15 pm   #16
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Several suggestions here to use spray can Hammerite. Don't, I've never managed to get good results from the aerosol cans and the nozzle has always clogged up before the can is even half empty. However, I have had fantastic results by applying Hammerite from a tin with a foam roller. Warm the tin very well in hot water first and work quickly, roll out thoroughly and be prepared to change the roller (gloves on) before the solvent starts to dissolve the foam.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 1:49 pm   #17
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

Thanks Tim,

You'd probably get a nice thick coat that way too.

Jason
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 2:17 pm   #18
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

For hammer paint to work, you have to get a thick coat, thick enough and wet enough for the surface tension trick to work and form the hammer finish.

THis is actually very difficult to achieve with an aerosol because if you try to get the needed thickness in the liquid phase on the work, you get runs on anything other than a scrupulously level flat part.

Spraying too thin a coating at once dries with little hammer effect and a sandpapery feeling surface. The spraying world's equivalent of a dry joint!

If you use a proper spray gun to get around the limitations of aerosol nozzles, boy do you need to be sure to get that stuff out of your gun as soon as possible. You also have to be very finickity about getting it all clean. Traces of hammer type paints will ruin subsequent jobs with that gun. A gravity-fed metal cup on a gun is maybe the easiest to clean if you get it wrong.

David
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 5:16 pm   #19
jayellis
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Default Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed

So that's hand paint or powder coat. After filling the hole with low temperature brazing rod. right'o sounds like a project
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