Garrard SP25 - new stylus or new cart?

[jpalancaster]

I've been resurrecting a Garrard SP25 mk III and haven't got the auto functions working just yet but will in time. It sounded rough on manual when playing, but cleaning the bearings and idler wheel has made it almost silent now. It sounds pretty impressive (thought to be fair it's playing into a pretty good amp and speakers).

The O ring above the top thrust washer had turned to goo so will need to find another small one to replace it. Even without it, it's quiet compared to how it was before.

So - main question. It has a Shure M75-6S cartridge. I don't know about the stylus though it sounds OK and tracks fine on clean LPs at about 2.3g. I think it would be sensible to replace it though. Do you guys recommend keeping the cart and finding a new stylus (if so which one?) or replacing the whole cartridge with something more modern?

John

[paulsherwin]

There are no Shure styluses available now so any replacements will be third party. That doesn't mean they're necessarily poor quality of course, just a bit of a gamble.

On balance I would be inclined to replace the cart with one of the Audio Technica basic models, either AT branded or an OEM brand like Linn. That way you get a newly manufactured cartridge and known good stylus. You should expect to pay £15-30, depending on what you buy and where you buy it from. I bought a Linn Carbon (AT91 derived) for £26.99 not too long ago.

[Edward Huggins]

You may find the cost of a Stylus for an older 1970s MM cartridge is more than the cost of a complete new generation MM cartridge. I really do support the advice given above. You can maybe keep the perfectly respectable Shure M75 and use this on older pressings and use the newer one on more precious vinyl. Of course you will need another SP25 Mk 3 cartridge slide carrier to make for a quick changeover. I also suggest you buy an Eyeglass for styli examination - you might be amazed at what a cheapo 12X glass can reveal! BTW tracking your Shure at 2.3 gram in an SP25, is right on the very edge of that tone-arm's capability and sounds exteremely light to me...

[bikerhifinut]

I am sure you didn't mean Linn when you mentioned the Linn carbon, its the Rega carbon and as you say its a fine cartridge and for the price pretty unbeatable.
Linn Cartridges are NEVER cheap and frankly as far as I am concerned they are a bit of a con, my local dealer wanted to flog me a linn Adikt at a price point north of £200, when I looked at it, it was obvious it was a goldring 1000 series tweaked up and the specs were identical to a G1012 at less than half Linns prices.
SP25 I wouldn't go much better than pauls recommendation, consider the new AT VM95C for about £30 and if you ever go to a better performing deck the VM95 series has a range of better performing styli so you can swap it over and get the benefit.

OK that all said, if the shure M75 is working well still, I'd try and have a look at the stylus under a microscope and if its still in good shape I'd be very happy to use it as the M75 was no slouch in its day and even now my old M75ED gives a good account of itself when it gets an airing.
I've got an Ed Saunders, alleged to be an N75ED stylus but I am sure its the heavy tracking disco/jukebox version designed to run at 3g or so, I'll need to check on vinyl engine on that, its the brown coloured stylus body.
Anyway if you want to try it, its free, its had about 20 hours use. Drop me a pm and its yours for the price of a stamp or a quid in the charity box in your local supermarket.

A.

[paulsherwin]

You are correct, I meant Rega not Linn. Apologies.

[jpalancaster]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.... I think I will go for an Audio Technica in time; looks like the 3600L might be the one.

bikerhifinut... thank you for your offer of the Ed Saunders stylus - I would be grateful of it thank you!

Edward Huggins - never thought about hot swapping cartridges like that. I suppose I could have a cartridge for 78s and one for microgroove records?

I had a go at the automatic mechanism this morning. It was seized and stiff but I cleaned it and it re-oiled and greased it so that it at least sets the pickup down. It won't auto return though and it sets the tonearm down in the wrong place. I don't think it's a case of adjustment; I think there's more old grease to have a go at.

Btw - what's the recommend tracking weight for these Garrards? I'd erred on being closer to 2g but do you think nearer 3g is more appropriate?

John

[Herald1360]

Around 3-5g. They're not really up to high end cartridges. Back in the day, Shure M75EJ was about as far as they would go. Conical tips were the usual fodder.

[bikerhifinut]

Originally Posted by jpalancaster

Thanks for the replies, everyone.... I think I will go for an Audio Technica in time; looks like the 3600L might be the one.

bikerhifinut... thank you for your offer of the Ed Saunders stylus - I would be grateful of it thank you!

Edward Huggins - never thought about hot swapping cartridges like that. I suppose I could have a cartridge for 78s and one for microgroove records?

I had a go at the automatic mechanism this morning. It was seized and stiff but I cleaned it and it re-oiled and greased it so that it at least sets the pickup down. It won't auto return though and it sets the tonearm down in the wrong place. I don't think it's a case of adjustment; I think there's more old grease to have a go at.

Btw - what's the recommend tracking weight for these Garrards? I'd erred on being closer to 2g but do you think nearer 3g is more appropriate?

John

PM me with an address and I will put it in a jiffy bag. It does need a fair old downforce but that should suit your SP25, its alleged to be an elliptical tip and probably is.
Those ED Saunders styli used to have a good reputation, they were selected pattern jobs from the Swiss manufacturers who seem to make most of the aftermarket stuff. However he retired and sold the business and I reckon the new owner isn't as good and I am certain this stylus is the heavy tracking job designed for stuff like jukeboxes. The brown colour of the moulding suggests this too.
I'll have a trawl back as I think these a post on here from someone who researched the Shure stylus options.
I have an M75ED with a JICO stylus that I found online for a lot less than JICOs prices, usual auction site, and it was genuine and still sealed in original box. That stylus is definitely very good and shows how good the M75ED is.
I got an aftermarket stylus for my fathers M75ED from Mantra audio a while back and it seems pretty good to us on his PL12D. Mantra Audio are a decent bunch with integrity.

For what its worth
Andy

[bikerhifinut]

I knew I could find it!
This link is useful for shure m75 owners.
from that I deduced that this stylus I have could be a N75EC tracking at 2 to 4g.
I know it works well at 3.5g and on an sp25 you could even try it at 4g and back the tracking force off in small steps until you get the best result.
A heavier down force is less of a problem to record wear than a stylus bouncing around a groove and mistracking because the downforce is set too low.
A.

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=551.0