UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > Clubs, Groups and Societies

Notices

Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl NVCF), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 11th Feb 2017, 4:01 pm   #41
unitaudio
Heptode
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 767
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Our hobby is only ever going to appeal to a certain type of person. The problem is many such people have been sucked into computers etc. and already have their hands full.

Regards,
Paul
__________________
...No, it's not supposed to pick up the World Service, it's not a radio!
unitaudio is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 4:09 pm   #42
MurphyNut
Heptode
 
MurphyNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 574
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
IMHO, it comes from being given a Meccano set and a model railway at an early age, a practice sadly long extinct. I blame the parents!
I spent many happy hours with lego and as with the above it stimulated me to be creative and understand the mechanics of how things are made and put together. I don't think this physical aspect of toys happens so much now, it seems to have moved increasingly to touching and viewing screens.
__________________
Clive
MurphyNut is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 4:18 pm   #43
unitaudio
Heptode
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 767
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

I had Meccano, Lego and things Dad brought back from work for me to dismantle. I was always fascinated by all things mechanical, electrical and electronic. My future interests were a foregone conclusion from the start! I was lucky...

Regards, Paul
__________________
...No, it's not supposed to pick up the World Service, it's not a radio!

Last edited by unitaudio; 11th Feb 2017 at 4:18 pm. Reason: typo
unitaudio is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 5:01 pm   #44
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 8,398
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

I was rather encouraged on Friday. A parcel for me arrived a work with oil, filter and sparkplugs in it, I unwrapped it (the wrapped item would not fit under the seat of my motorcycle) and said to Jenny (our accountant) "guess what I am doing at the weekend?" "Changing your oil, I bet that is satisfying" was the reply. OK it's only (and off piste for this forum) an oil change, I would be more than willing to help her (and lend tools) for a DIY job. I will try to nudge her to do the next one her car needs. I would be worth a Saturday morning to see the "I did that" smile.

The few tools needed to do a simple job are far cheaper than hiring someone else to do it, even as a one off. Then you have to tools ready for the next one and feel confident to use them (maybe with a little help). I am always ready to give help to someone who wants to learn.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 6:39 pm   #45
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 12,220
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Most people are completely unaware of what they could do if they wanted to.

They get fed a drip drip drip of "That's technical, ordinary people can't do that" and sadly they believe it. It makes the few who break out of the mould all the more valuable.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 10:15 pm   #46
Tyso_Bl
Hexode
 
Tyso_Bl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Magor, Monmouthshire, Wales, UK.
Posts: 370
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Lets face it, we're stuffed, we should admit that we do what we do because we enjoy it, youngsters today will do what they enjoy today then move on. It doesn't make much sense to try and justify what we do as preserving some sort of heritage or history, no one cares or see's the importance exept us.

Why do we have to try and get younger people in to the hobby? Anyone of any age would be welcome wouldn't they? We would have more chance of recruitment with those persons who are of an age where they are likley to have the time, place, and resources to go beyond the inital fashion statement of having a dansette or something.

Many of us are from the last generation that did things for ourselves because we had to, that doesn't happen now, the few of us that do are looked on as oddballs.
There is a whole generation now that has never known the world before the WWW, they grew up with it as naturally as we grew up with wireless, they're going to miss it when the revolution comes.
I've done what I can to pass on my knowledge and skills to those who came after me, I've taught more than one entusiastic youngster ennogh about electronics and radio so that thay could buuild their own FM transmitters to broadcast the music they loved and wanted to shere, and they did. I'm proud of that, they may have gone on to develop ancillary interests related to electronics and wireless. I don't know , I do remember one young man being so shocked and completley taken aback when I used a set of high impedance headfones to verify the output of a low band VHF receiver, he went on to build a couple of crystal sets after that. didn't beleive that a radio could work without betteries till he built one himself.

For someone to be interested they have to haqve some motivation, just restoring vintage radios is not a good enough end in itself, how many of us were interested in the things our parents were? or tried to "push " on us?

Amateur radio as a hobby is in a similar position, there isn't enough relevance in todays world, I came into amateur radio because I wanted to play music over the radio, it was the only way I could learn how to bould transmitters, but it had the side effect of sidetraccking me in to all sorts of assosiated skilss such as metal and woodworking, auido and hifi, tower block climbing, locksmithing, RDFinding, it all spread out from there.

In short, if we're to get anyone interested, they have discover a motivation, without that the hobby is sunk.

Hope I've not said too much,

t
__________________
Adapt, Improvise, Overcome...

G-QRP ~ 14233
Tyso_Bl is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 10:19 pm   #47
The Philpott
Octode
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,852
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Repair Cafe- that is absolutely brilliant.

(Station X i accuse you of being modest when you refer to building a model steam engine- i have a suspicion you built a miniature steam engine!)
The Philpott is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 10:38 pm   #48
TonyDuell
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 3,217
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

I agree with others who say we can't (and shouldn't try) to force people to join this hobby, or indeed the electronics hobby in general.

I am sure that for each of us there are hobbies that we have no interest in, and in fact that we positively hate. For me it's any form of sport or exercise. You could point a gun at me and I'd not go in a gym. For those who enjoy that sort of thing, fine. I am not trying to say you shouldn't take part. But it's not for me.

Same with electronics. It's not for everybody. Some people enjoy it (I am one) and all we can do is encourage them. If somebody comes here eager to learn about old radios, or telephones, or... then of course we should provide information, point them at useful books and websites and so on. But my experience is that many of us do that already. I don't think such a person has ever been turned away.

Yes, I enjoy repairing things. I enjoy electronics, machinery, clocks, etc, etc, etc. I always have. I was looking at clock mechanisms in the Science Musuem (before the powers-that-be ruined it) before I went to school. I grew up taking things apart and putting them together. And like others here, I loved Lego, Meccano, and the excellent FischerTechnik system (which I still use, and which I consider to be the best of the construction toys).

Nobody has to justify their hobby. All that is important about a hobby IMHO is that (a) the person doing it enjoys it overall and (b) it doesn't harm people not involved in the hobby. Vintage radio would appear to statisfy those criteria.
TonyDuell is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 4:48 am   #49
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 12,220
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

I suspect that if you could justify it, it would no longer be a hobby


On the amateur radio front I watched as the RSGB put its focus entirely onto attracting young people, even changing the Radio Amateur's Exam structure and format to fit around a schoolboy model. Such new entrants to the hobby would be great, but it neglected the fact that the influx at the time was mostly people taking it up well after their educational years. If you watch an experienced electronics person's face when they find out what's now involved in getting a licence, some of the hoops to be jumped must seem like being required to act out an episode of 'Teletubbies'. I get asked "Isn't there another way?" These people being discouraged would have become heavy-hitters if they'd got involved. Whose loss is it?

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

Last edited by Radio Wrangler; 12th Feb 2017 at 5:00 am.
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 8:41 am   #50
TonyDuell
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 3,217
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

The purpose of the amateur radio licence exam is, in my opinion, simply to ensure that you have enough technical knowledge to build/operate a transmitter safely. Meaning without causing interference to other radio systems. It is (of course) not there to determine who is 'best' at radio/electronics.

As a result, I don't see why there has to be only one possible way of showing that. After all, I took the RAE when it was the pair of multiple choice papers run by the City and Guilds. That is deemed to be sufficient to get me (now) a full licence. I don't have to do the new-style hands-on course. But if I started now, I would.

For some people the hands-on course is valuable. For others, it would be something of an insult. So why not have alternatives. Either pass an exam (in the style of the old multiple choice one) OR complete the course.
TonyDuell is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 10:22 am   #51
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 12,220
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

I agree, but we'd better not relight this subject. The point I was wanting to make is that the exam got changed to suit a target age range rather distant from the population who are interested.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 10:28 am   #52
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 4,374
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Setting the Radio Amateur Exam aside[ [I managed to pass in 83 but never went on the air for various reasons] David [p40] and Tony [post 48] set out a very good overall analysis in particular and David also pointed out that most people are unaware of their capabilities in p45. I was inclined to the view that the "modern" generation is resistant to things technical or "hands on" and at risk of disappearing into their VR helmets but I suspect I'm very wrong. It's much more likely to be an unfamiliarity or unawareness of what could be engaged with as others have said. The popularity of work with the Raspberry Pi devices would seem to support that view. If there is ever going to be a good time to push the construction and repair ethos to young [or older] people it appears to be now in the midst of a "retro" boom we've not quite seen before. I've always been struck by the stories I've heard about Military education systems, ie selecting Morse operatives in WW2 by finding out who has some inherent talent/interest that they didn't even know was there!

If I can be permitted to make a non electronic comparison, I'm in a Local Heritage Society where the membership has an older demographic that appears to be declining. Members cheerfully admit that a number of them are not even locals and are simply engaging in a retirement activity. I'm not, unfortunately, able to get very involved in this issue because of my peripatetic life style but I did offer a comment. I asked about engaging more with local schools and was told that they had given the occasional talk but there was little interest. This wasn't really what I meant and I said that I would start with the teaching staff themselves, were they local for example? what was their interest? etc and try to relate the subject more directly to pupils [who all DO live locally]. I advocated concentrating on more immediate post WW2 local history that would bring their own family members into the picture ie who worked in now defunct industries twenty or thirty years ago-ancient history to the young! I suppose my point is that the Repair Cafe initiative [with Phil and his "headlight"] seems to be a very positive way to achieve a direct interaction in the way that simply talking to people may not.

Dave W

Last edited by dave walsh; 12th Feb 2017 at 10:51 am.
dave walsh is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 3:19 pm   #53
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,229
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
I suppose my point is that the Repair Cafe initiative seems to be a very positive way to achieve a direct interaction in the way that simply talking to people may not.
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's contribution to this thread, and sympathise with the vast majority of the views expressed. I am also very glad that the Repair Cafe idea seems to have been so well received, as I personally have found it a really worthwhile activity.

I've been asked to point out that not all Repair Cafes are registered with the international foundation (probably to save money!) so there may be more than appear. Amongst the earliest to get going were Bristol and Reading, and one of the founders of the Reading Repair Café is a real expert on sewing machines and collects vintage Singer models. He is also a member of the local "hackerspace". These may also be a source of new enthusiasts for vintage radios etc.
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 10:42 am   #54
Damo666
Hexode
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Blackburn, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

I've found a repair cafe just 10 miles or thereabouts away from my area, so will definitely be looking into attending. I'm not much good at Electronics, but I'm good at brewing up and am keen to learn.

The repair cafe amongst other things is also a good excuse to get some peace & quiet away from my Wife & kids.
Damo666 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 11:03 am   #55
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,229
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Well done! You will be welcomed I'm sure. Electronics is only one field where specialist repairers are needed. There are plenty of basic electrical appliances, furniture, garden tools, toys, picture frames and a miscellany of other items arriving for repair, which can be tackled by anyone with common sense, the right tools and the confidence to have a go. The bulk of these items were destined for the tip anyway, so often there's nothing to lose, and frequently much to gain.
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 12:20 pm   #56
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 12,220
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Having a PAT tester handy might just be a good precaution to keep "m'learned friends'" at arm's length.

Just in case.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 12:42 pm   #57
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,229
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Good point. Yes, we do have our own Seaward Primetest 50 PAT tester, primarily to test incoming items for basic electrical safety before they reach our volunteers. It was one of our first major purchases, and we have undertaken basic training in its use. As an automated 'go/no-go' tester it defaults to 'fail' unless properly used. We do also test appliances after any repair.
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 4:29 pm   #58
JayBee66
Pentode
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Kilkenny, Ireland
Posts: 116
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

You are going to have to get used to the fact that the younger generation are predominantly interested in plug and play devices.

The majority of younger electronics hobbyists use Arduino/Pi style devices with plug in extras. Maybe a little soldering on a protoshield to get the job finished. The modern world is digital and the young want to intereface with it and innovate. What use is the shrinking valve world to them?

A recent discussion in this forum suggested a meet in London and that it would not be for Arduino/Pi types. That pretty much sums up some of the closed minds on this forum. Electronics is electronics. I am glad to have seen the back of heavy, hot, smelly, dangerous, valve TVs. It's called progress.

I sit between the analogue and digital generations at fifty years old. I have never been interested in being a radio ham and have used email since the early 80s. I wonder why people bother with SW today, other than it's all they understand.

It's no different to many other crafts, trades and hobbies that have fallen by the wayside. Very few collect stamps these days. The self-adhesive stamp is a welcome innovation. One wonders why it took so long for someone to create it.

The likelihood of valve and discrete transistorised devices surviving in numbers into the next century, outside of a museum, is very slim. Radio and television itself will probably be gone. I no longer have a television or a regular radio, preferring online catch-up of the occasional TV documentary or a live sports event through online radio. I don't even use the words television or radio in normal speech. "I'm going online to watch/listen to..."

If you want to enthuse the youth then you are going to have to use modern electronics and methods. You can sneak a few valves into an amplifier circuit for comparison and maybe a few will want to know more but the majority will just want an easy life.

Finally, the Gestapo-esque moderation doesn't help either. People are people and so long as nobody is making threats they should be able to say what they like. Still, joining the forum was easier than joining the Radio Museum, which was rather akin to joining the Freemasons. If you want knowledge to live then it must be easily accessible with no barriers and no worrying about treading on eggshells. I feel the vintage crowd could learn a lot from the rough and ready digital crowd.
JayBee66 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 5:04 pm   #59
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 8,019
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

Nowt wrong with shortwave, still listen when I have the chance, was also listening back then when some folks were still swimming up a fallopian tubes, lot's of digital related stuff on shortwave.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2017, 5:22 pm   #60
IanBland
Hexode
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Northampton, Northants, UK.
Posts: 280
Default Re: Attracting younger members to Vintage Equipment

JayBee66

The Pi type podules draw people into having to learn transistor circuits, op amp circuits, digital chip circuits, etc. Take a look at Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange some time. It's not just "plug and play"; and while we may be creating a generation whose primary skillset is switching LEDs on and off by ever more convoluted means, it's all good.

Valves are still in use in audio. Probably will be for a very long time; whether they really do sound better or not, the perception is that they do. Particularly regarding guitar amplification.

The bottom line here is that 99.9% of everybody has always wanted "plug and play". There's nothing different about the current generation. Hobbies like electronics are always marginal (and often practised by the socially marginalised "geeks"). Most people are interested in what a machine does. A few are more interested in how it does it. It's a personality thing.

And I must say also your attitude in that post is a bit confrontational. This is a vintage gear forum. You come across as somebody who has joined an antique furniture forum then complains that it's all about old chairs.
IanBland is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:03 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2019, Paul Stenning.