How Good Are Ferrographs?

[stevehertz]

How good are Neal/Ferrograph cassette decks? I know they were/are used by the police for recording interviews but is that because they were robust, reliable and repairable (and perhaps British) or do they aurally stack up to the likes of Tandberg, Nakamichi and Revox in terms that would satisfy the hifi enthusiast? Because there's a big difference between a tank-like machine that will record voices reliably for decades and one that will provide the very best audio quality for the music listener..

[Radio Wrangler]

The Neal cassette machines used the 3M Wollensak mechanism. I don't know of anything else that ever did. At the time they were simply too expensive for private use. I've never come across anyone who's tried one.

David

[Ted Kendall]

The NEAL 100 series did indeed use the Wollensak mechanism, as did Advent in the States. It was good for its time, in fact one of the first to offer decent wow performance - plenty of mass - and quite robust, if a bit clunky in feel. The weak point now is the pinch roller, which is an uncommon design - the bearing is hinged horizontally in a little plastic arm and the roller is a brass cup with a thin tyre. It isn't a problem because of the performance, quite the reverse, but because it goes sticky and spares dried up decades ago. Perhaps Terry could do something with it.

The 300 series have more in common with the Police machines, and use NEAL's own mechanism. By the time they were introduced, I think it's fair to say they were nearly-but-not-quite in comparison to the best Japanese and Swiss machines. As has happened before, a small UK firm gets a government or BBC contract and neglects products for the domestic market...

[Goodizzy]

This is an interesting thread. I have recently come across a Series 3A/NH machine made for 110/125V as found here in the States. This is the 7 1/2 and 15 IPS model.

Does anyone have experience recording with the 15 IPS versions of these? Surely they were used in some aspect of broadcast work?

I'm assuming the model I have was targeted towards the export semi-pro market. (It has unbalanced inputs and no true line level out). I got it for a fantastic price and am hoping to get to restoring it at some point in the next couple of months.

[Hartley118]

I've always found that a high quality line level low impedance output from the Ferrograph is available at the loudspeaker jack. The substantial output transformer is of high quality, typically made by Partridge, so there's no significant quality loss.

Martin

[Goodizzy]

Thanks- I had read that elsewhere, but had assumed it was some sort of 'hack' job with mediocre results. That is a fantastic reversal!

Edit- It would still be a bit low for a 600 ohm line though?

[Hartley118]

Don't worry about '600 ohm lines'. There are many fallacies around. Here's the truth:

1. For short audio cables (and even rather long ones), characteristic impedance is irrelevant.
2. The only cables I know approximating a 600 ohm characteristic impedance are old fashioned open wire telephone lines on ceramic insulators.
3. When driving audio cables, the lower the output impedance the better.

So, in short, worry not!

Martin

[flywheel]

Originally Posted by Hartley118

The substantial output transformer is of high quality, typically made by Partridge, so there's no significant quality loss.

It's a common misconception (exploited for profit by a number of eBay sellers who strip these decks to resell the parts) that the output transformers were made by Partridge. In fact Ferrograph made their own transformers (audio, mains, and chokes, as well as their own motors). I think Ferrograph historian and BVWS member Terry Martini discuses this in his history of the firm, "Built Like A Battleship", but I can also attest to this having visited the factory in the early 70s with my father (who worked for the firm) where I saw the transformer and motor winding facilities.

BTW, if you want to hear just how good these Ferrograph output transformers are, here's a way to test them: connect two hi-fi 8 ohm speakers in series (correctly phased!) across the mono 15 ohm output of a Ferrograph tape deck. The 2.5 watt output from the EL84 single-ended amp won't give you much power, but I think you'll find the sound quality very nice indeed!

[GeoffB17]

Hello all,

Well, I've still got my NEAL 102 cassette machine, and it's still working fine (ish). I still use it in my 'studio' room, but not in the 'Hi-Fi' room where the AIWA cassette machine still rules. The NEAL shows no hint of any sticky pinch roller, mechanically it's still pretty solid, although it does rumble a bit. I was told, YEARS ago, that one of the bearings on the capstan is a bit worn, and it's not easy to replace (evidently another bearing IS), but for most of the things I play, I never notice. Maybe if the bearing settles the right way around then it's all OK? Main thing, the sound is VERY solid, still sounds pretty good. The high-speed wind is often useful too. The AIWA copes with metal tapes, has BIAS adjust, and it's three head, that's why it gets the Hi-Fi spot!

Also, I have a Ferrograph Logic 7, which WAS a great machine, BUT....

Hopefully, it will be great again.

The dreaded 'rubber rot' set in, so the pinch roller and some internal rubber wheels have gone more like toffee than rubber. I'm nearly all set to send the machine off to Service Sound in Bexhill for a full service/refit/etc. Will cost a bit, but should come back better than new. When it last worked, it was still great (I've got the half track high speed version, no Dolby). Just now, I'm making do with my other r2r, a TEAC A-3340, which is still working fine (apart from a sticky pinch roller - mechanical, not the rubber - which needs a bit of help to engage, but once engaged, works perfectly). All three machines were bought new back in the 1970's, one careful owner (me), so I suppose at 40 years old or so it's all pretty good.

I understand the Logic 7 is popular in Germany, and I've seen some impressive prices paid for them. I made sure to tell the wife that when telling her what I was planning to spend on the service!!

Geoff B Guisborough

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
Did the Logic Seven have the same idler wheels as the Series and Super Seven? I thought they had done away with them and made a Revox contender.
Last time I saw the name Ferrograph was in the Nineties on the CRT destination monitors in Manchester Airport. Nothing to do with the grand old firm, unfortunately.
Glyn

[GeoffB17]

I understand that the idlers are still there in the Logic 7, that's what I've been told, and read elsewhere. I assume they are the same as on the earlier machines, as someone makes them, and I'd guess this is not really viable for just one model?

Geoff