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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 10:14 am   #81
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

After some consideration you may be right regarding 2x transformers in series.
To that end I found a step down device/transformer on ebay for about a tenner so ordered one ..
UK Plug to US Socket Voltage Step Down Converter *230V - 110V 45W* Mains Adapter

although not a pretty solution ...I figured would be ok for such occasional use.
thoughts Sirius ?
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 11:45 am   #82
Slothie
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

The combined load of the 2 transformers is 24 VA, so even taking into account losses in the transformers you should easily have more than enough power.
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Old 25th Jun 2019, 4:45 pm   #83
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Still waiting for the step down transformer ...so in the meantime I retrofitted this VIC20 pcb with bases on all the chips even the 555 timer.
You can see just how bulky the replacement rom/eproms are needing special pin convertors for 27c64 eproms.
Yes these work just fine but I wanted to fit pin compatible eproms which dont need the conversion bases.
Hence my interest in the programmer..
rgds
VS
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Old 25th Jun 2019, 6:01 pm   #84
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

As I mentioned further back, I got involved in a case where the 24-pin BASIC ROM of a Nascom had failed and I programmed one of those 24-pin Motorola devices for the owner of that machine as a nice drop-in replacement.

I can certainly understand why you want to take that approach.

Hard to believe you just bought that EMP-10 on a whim without even looking up the device support list. You certainly got lucky there, as it was marketed as a 'cut down' EMP-20 with a much more compact 'popular devices only' support list.
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Old 25th Jun 2019, 7:56 pm   #85
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Yes indeed..
It was a bit risky ..but I had seen a few youtube vids that sort of hinted that the EMP-10 was very similar to the 20 in function.
rgds
VS
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 3:23 pm   #86
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

The mains convertor has arrived ..but I really dont like that it runs so hot and smells of hot transformer.
I shall be on the lookout for a 12v 1 amp 240v AC brick.
On the plus side I have it running on my T3200 toshy luggable.
And I have blank checked a Motorola 68764C
Confirmed wiped.
Not yet tried programming but see no reason it would not work.
rgds
VS
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 4:03 pm   #87
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Alternatively look for a non-switched-mode unregulated 15VDC one, remove the bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor and take the output of the transformer directly to the output cable (or via an inline fuse, if you want to be cautious).

(Usually, putting a bridge and a smoothing capacitor on the AC output of a transformer results in a DC voltage somewhat higher than the AC voltage output of the transformer - so you need to think this in reverse, look for a PSU with higher DC voltage out, so when you remove the bridge and capacitor, you get a correspondingly lower AC voltage than the marked DC voltage - if you follow).

Even then, the actual AC voltage output from the transformer will rise and fall as the load increases and decreases. I think you can be reasonably certain the EMP-10 has internal voltage regulators, not so sure about the eraser though.

Just looked at the PSU for our EMP-20, it also has a 12VAC supply, although ours is the 230V version of course. It's held together by screws so I looked inside to see if it might have two 115V primaries wired in series, but sadly not, just a single 230V winding.

Details on our (230V) supply are:
AC Adaptor
Part No:TA2CE2200L00
Input 230VAC 50Hz
Output: 12VAC 2.2A
Globtek NJ/USA
Made in Taiwan
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 6:59 pm   #88
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Hmm not having any luck at all here..??
Not sure why.
Is it the chip type ..is it the family module..is it the software/algorythm..or perhaps the programmer itself ?
I loaded up a VIC20 kernal into the buffer (running EMP-10 in a DOS window on win98se)
inserted the family module ..
confusing isnt the word as the software is claiming 1A not 1B ..
Tried both ..1A and 1B ..
with 1B software complains the module is missing or incorrect.
in with 1A it is accepted but programming never takes place ?
Ok I thought ..
establish the programmer is working by inserting a 27C64 chip
..which IS 1A ..
This programmed no trouble and correctly verified.
looks like despite the blurb the 68764 isn't supported ?
at least not by my programmer and the software is not accurate (1A and 1B are reversed)
perhaps it is because the device is a 68764C and not a 68764 ?
..or just maybe the software has bugs ?
I'm wondering how compatible the EMP20 software is ?
perhaps that has the bugs fixed ? ..and if compatible perhaps Sirius could pass on a copy to me ?
rgds
VS
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 7:24 pm   #89
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

The 'C' suffix just means that it is in a ceramic package, and has no bearing on how the programmer programs it - that is why the programmer does not offer the 'C' version as a separate device.

The EMP-20 software is at work just now. My gut feeling is that it will only run in 'demo' mode if it doesn't find itself talking to an EMP-20, and there are other differences as well - your EMP-10 has a full set of three personality modules, but for the EMP20 there were many more of those and, just like in your EMP10 software, the programmer software indicates which module is needed for each device by appending the personality module number to the end of the device name.

Whenever you try to read from or write to a device the software first checks that you have the correct module inserted, and gets no further if you haven't. Since these module numbers are different between the EMP-10 and the EMP-20, I think it is unlikely to work at all.

At what point does it fail when you try to programme one of the Motorola devices? I'm assuming it lets you select the manufacturer / part and also lets you try to perform reads / writes which suggests that the software and programmer DO support these devices, so at what point does it fail and what error message (if any) comes up?

How sure are you of the provenance of those Motorola ICs? If you want to send me one to see if I can programme it (a) with my ALL07A and (b) with the EMP20 at work, I'd be happy to try, drop me a PM if you want to try that.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 7:53 pm   #90
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

This is very confusing ..
So
I have the EMP10 setup as follows..
Kernal bin selected
As the photo suggests the correct personality module for the motorola device is 1A ..
No programming possible..
(basically wrong module even though software says use 1A)
another photo shows the error response.
I flip the module to use 1B
I no longer receive an error message ..and it looks like I can program.
Not so another message appears mere seconds after starting the process, which arent clear in photo
a verify error.
these read :-Buffer Address 00000000 Buffer Data 0F
Device Adress 00000000 Device Data FF
Which would make sense as the chip is blank
This is the total opposite of what should be fitted according to the software.
1A recommended (doesnt work at all)
1B not recommended ( sort of allows to start but doesn't run)
So in other words ..software gets it totally wrong ??

I may well send you a chip and the Kernal.BIN if only to shed some light on this mystery.
For now at least I'll keep trying to resolve this ..as I feel I've wasted another load of dosh ..and only got a duplicate of what I already had.


I really think I should be ignoring the software ..and Use 1B ..but the software Algorythm is incompatible ..even though it says it should be possible ?
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Last edited by ViperSan; 26th Jun 2019 at 8:05 pm.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 8:34 pm   #91
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

If you remember, the 'supported device' list that I pointed you to also said that the Motorola devices needed the M1 (B side). So maybe this is just an error in the text description of the device on the software, telling you to use the M1A module when it should be M1B.

Looking at your first picture, which side of the module do you think you have inserted in that image, A or B? Going by the convention of the EMP-20 whichever label is at the bottom right corner in that picture is the currently inserted side, so in your picture, you have it inserted as M1A.

For future reference, the forum downsizes uploaded images quite fiercely, so if you post any more screen shots try to get the screen to fill the whole image. Even if I save the images you posted in #90 and load them into some other file viewer, it's nearly impossible to read the on screen text.

The strong point on those EMP programmers - the personality modules, which allow them to support a very large range of device layouts - is also the weak point because with constant handling, insertion and removal the contacts on the edge can get very dirty or tarnished. Conversely, if they don't get used, they tarnish. Yours look clean, but it might be worth giving the edge contacts a gentle wipe with some sort of contact cleaner.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 8:46 pm   #92
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

I've just had a hunt around: Here's an archived version (on waybackmachine) of the Needhams software download page. The original version of the page no longer exists.

http://web.archive.org/web/200711060...-download.html

The eighth item down, 'Ver 4.18' appears to be a self-extracting ARC file containing the EMP-10 software.

I have not downloaded it myself, please exercise due care and attention (scan for malware, etc) if you decide to download, extract and run this software which I think will be the DOS software.

Obviously, you already have the DOS software but this may be a later version with fewer bugs: Check the version number of the software you already have.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 8:57 pm   #93
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Yep ..indeed I had already found it and grabbed a copy..
It is a later software revision ..and DOES show the device as 1B
I am currently programming my motorola device...and although the byte count is going up..is painfully slow.
but may well get there eventually.
I'll report back in a while.
So yes the original software IS at fault.
rgds
VS
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 9:05 pm   #94
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Ok ..programmed, verified and fitted in my test VIC20 pcb ..
results are in the photos
thanks for ALL your help Sirius.
Without it I might well have given up.
rgds
VS
..I shall be keeping an eye out for more of these motorola chips
lol
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 9:07 pm   #95
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Great, but you actually found, first, the the programmer, and then the newer working software without any help. Glad you now have a working solution for programming those devices.
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