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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:07 pm   #41
stofbj1
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

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Originally Posted by Station X View Post
If the pilot light were a fuse the radio wouldn't work at all.

If you're going to replace components, rather than using fault finding procedures, I suggest you start with the audio coupling capacitors C52 and C54. If these are electrically leaking they may destroy the output transformer, output valve and mains transformer.
Great thanks I will do that, I will have to order some from farnell
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:08 pm   #42
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

Either that or there are dirty switch contacts. try touching (with a screwdriver blade) the centre tag of the volume control. That should definitely give a buzz.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:10 pm   #43
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio

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Ah found a damaged sticker on the chassis, with some numbers on the chassis when I removed the already damaged sticker,
P.E. on the type label confirms the Irish manufacture. My best guess is that the set was partially based on British and Dutch designs. Why the part number for the back looks like a Dutch provisional number, not sure. Maybe part of the set was based on a pre-production design or derived from a CKD (Philips presumably had a design department and trial factory for CKD export to smaller assembly factories).

The number 1099 underneath, is a factory number. Often not the same as the real serial number. Numbering might have started at 1001.

What does the back itself look like? Could you maybe take one or two close up pictures of the station dial?

Last edited by Maarten; 17th Jun 2019 at 1:22 pm.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:16 pm   #44
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio

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Either that or there are dirty switch contacts. try touching (with a screwdriver blade) the centre tag of the volume control. That should definitely give a buzz.
Just tried that and yes this causes a buzz, not really loud. The capacitor from the centre tap seems to be 15000pf measured out of circuit 16.4nF seems close enough. Going to have a look at the schematic now as we have determined the model. As its hard to read the print on the old black caps, I presume I can replace these with 400v film caps

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Either that or there are dirty switch contacts. try touching (with a screwdriver blade) the centre tag of the volume control. That should definitely give a buzz.
First thing I did was cleaned the switch contacts, they are spotless

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Originally Posted by Mike. Watterson View Post
Could be this model:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_bif_571a.html

I can't imagine very many people had VHF reception in 1958 in Ireland.
Thanks again Mike for finding this, I now have the schematic's downloaded, its a great help, I googled for ages looking at images but could not find it.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:32 pm   #45
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

Testing capacitors for capacitance will not tell you whether they are electrically leaky. To determine this they need to be tested at the working voltage. The set itself will supply the working voltage. This is why checking voltages in a set is such a useful fault finding method.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:46 pm   #46
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

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Testing capacitors for capacitance will not tell you whether they are electrically leaky. To determine this they need to be tested at the working voltage. The set itself will supply the working voltage. This is why checking voltages in a set is such a useful fault finding method.
Hi, I understand that, but just a quick test with an ESR meter is no harm,
it might detect a completely bust cap. (i will have to order some new caps) I have just downloaded the diagram layout, since I can not read some of the values of the large black caps as the righting is faded away, the schematic does not show capacitor values, any idea on top of the schematic are colums S C R, What is this?

Last edited by Station X; 17th Jun 2019 at 1:52 pm. Reason: Attachment removed.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:51 pm   #47
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

S,C,R = Inductors, Capacitors, Resistors.....Component numbers, follow the component number down to find its location on the schematic.

I think the component values can be downloaded from radiomuseum but for those that can't be faffed I think the service data for the Philips 353a might have the same/similar values, the 353a doesn't have a magic eye.

Radiomuseum will be annoyed if they discover your link to their schematic, they might ban you.

EDIT: I notice that the link has since been removed.

Lawrence.

Last edited by ms660; 17th Jun 2019 at 2:08 pm. Reason: Extra info
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 1:52 pm   #48
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

Sorry, but you cannot post entire documents lifted from RM on here.

ESR is only applicable to electrolytic capacitors. I've never found the need to measure it in valve sets. Faulty smoothing capacitors will show up as hum, over heating or low HT. Faulty cathode bypass caps (C3 for example) will show up as incorrect cathode voltage.

For cap values consult the parts list.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:06 pm   #49
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
S,C,R = Inductors, Capacitors, Resistors.

I think the component values can be downloaded from radiomuseum but for those that can't be faffed I think the service data for the Philips 353a might have the same/similar values, the 353a doesn't have a magic eye.

Radiomuseum will be annoyed if they discover your link to their schematic, they might ban you.

EDIT: I notice that the link has since been removed.
Thanks for the info, did not realise that I could not link, can I edit to remove it?

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Sorry, but you cannot post entire documents lifted from RM on here.

ESR is only applicable to electrolytic capacitors. I've never found the need to measure it in valve sets. Faulty smoothing capacitors will show up as hum, over heating or low HT. Faulty cathode bypass caps (C3 for example) will show up as incorrect cathode voltage.

For cap values consult the parts list.
Sorry for posting the document, I did not realize, can I edit it and remove it, if its a problem
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:27 pm   #50
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio

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The tuner design is rather old fashioned for 1958.

Mike, when did RTE start VHF (presumably from Athlone)? I wondered above if this might have been the Philips Ireland launch model for the new service.
It's a horribly old tuner design for 1958.

It has to have been for UK FM radio by Cable TV and UK Radio via big masts in Dublin area (for Belfast or Wales, likely Band 1 TV aerials would have picked up UK Band II Radio). Obviously border regions would haveI'd mistakenly thought VHF Radio started the the same year as TV (which was technically 1961), but I'm told it was 1966!

[Edit: I'm sceptical about 1966, but there might only have been a more limited service from late 1961, maybe from one of the TV sites. Not Athlone AM site, it's useless for VHF. I've no idea where the lower power Dublin and Cork AM transmitters where, which had separate frequencies and programs till 1939. I didn't live in this part of Ireland till 1983 and I'm sure we had only AM in the car when visiting in the 1960s. I do remember Downtown Radio and Radio Ulster starting in NI and we used an imported Grundig for Manx Radio on VHF. We did have VHF on a Decca RG100 and later a Murphy A272 in Belfast in the early 1960s]
By 1963 or 1964 the valve sets were gone?

Last edited by Mike. Watterson; 17th Jun 2019 at 2:41 pm. Reason: Sceptical
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:34 pm   #51
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

Indeed, if you download anything from RMorg and repost it anywhere, you'd get banned from that site, even if it's a public domain item.
Also you can't post any complete schematic here that's sold by this site.

Both of these rules are reasonable clear parts of the terms and conditions of memberships of the sites.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:36 pm   #52
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

Still after all the trouble finding the schematic diagram, the next hurdle is the find the capacitor values that are unreadable.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:38 pm   #53
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

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By 1963 or 1964 the valve sets were gone?
Yes, 1966 would have been very late for a valve FM set, though the Bush VHF81 was still being made then.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:51 pm   #54
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

These may be identical, except for no magic eye.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_353a.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_g74a.html

They may be on the sales list on this site.
The audio coupling (g2 to 0V, Anodes to g1, tone controls and on the output transformer) are not very critical in value. Likely they all need replaced and will test perfect for ESR and value. It's the leakage current when more than 100V is on them is the issue.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 2:57 pm   #55
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio

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Yes that is way I have is disconnected, I just found a marking on it on the bottom 4k7 is this a capacitor then?
Yes. I would think it is a 4.7 nanofarad (4.7nf) ceramic type
These very rarely fail. Tony.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 3:08 pm   #56
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

It does look as if Philips Ireland just took the 353A chassis and built a nice wooden cabinet for it, adding a magic eye. I wonder if Philips GB had stopped production by then and had some surplus parts and tooling.

The big Philips 'black pitch' caps will all be coupling or decoupling caps and can safely be replaced with 0.047uF modern types, though it's obviously good practice to match the original values if possible. The only exception might be in the tone control circuit.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 4:11 pm   #57
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

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Likely they all need replaced and will test perfect for ESR and value. It's the leakage current when more than 100V is on them is the issue.
If not ceramic. Sorry.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 4:13 pm   #58
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

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Still after all the trouble finding the schematic diagram, the next hurdle is the find the capacitor values that are unreadable.
Like I said the capacitor values are given in the parts list which forms part of the service manual and is downloadable from RM.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 5:45 pm   #59
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stofbj1 View Post
Still after all the trouble finding the schematic diagram, the next hurdle is the find the capacitor values that are unreadable.
Like I said the capacitor values are given in the parts list which forms part of the service manual and is downloadable from RM.
Ah I see them now, for some reason when I downloaded the .pdf file it only gave me page 1. But checking on RM again the other pages are there. Strange I will try requesting it again.

Thanks everyone for your help, I going to start with replacing the capacitors as these are well overdue, hopefully this will fix my issue.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 6:11 pm   #60
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Default Re: Help to identify old Philips valve radio. BIF 571A.

You'll need to download the pages one at a time.
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