What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

PJL · 14th Mar 2006, 9:20 pm

I have a an hmv 463 30's set which I stripped the finish off as it had mostly fallen off anyway. My first attempt was to use french polish but a few months later and it has become heat damaged from the valves.

It would originally have been laquer I guess. I see Paul Stenning recommends a colron wax or oil finish, elsewhere I have seen articles recommending laquer but I have no idea where this can be purchased from? What should I be trying next and where can I get it frrom? Any help would be very much appreciated as the set is fully electircally restored but looks as if I just recovered it from a skip!

paulsherwin · 14th Mar 2006, 9:32 pm

I've used Colron Dark Oak coloured liquid wax to finish cabinets. It looks nice but doesn't have the toffee apple high gloss shine of the commercial varnishes and lacquers originally used on radios. Not too much work and idiot proof though

Paul

Radio_Dave · 14th Mar 2006, 10:49 pm

I prefer Danish Oil, it's just wiped on with a lint free cloth. More coats are added after 6 hours, to give a deeper shine, but don't be tempted to do 4 coats as it starts looking too thick

I've attached a picture of a radio to which I have applied three coats

David

paulsherwin · 15th Mar 2006, 12:50 am

Nice job David.

I think Danish oil is good if you don't want to darken the wood too much. Many radio cabinets were sprayed with heavily pigmented lacquer (almost like brown paint) and in these cases Danish oil won't look dark enough. Even the dark Colron liquid wax doesn't get the wood to the correct colour.

I'm planning to use Danish oil on my Ekco A104 when I strip it over the summer, possibly together with wood dye.

Danish oil doesn't look like the original lacquer though, even if you get the colour right

Best regards, Paul

Mike Phelan · 15th Mar 2006, 9:33 am

The difficult ones are things like some of the German sets with an extremely high gloss.

There is a 2-part product that will reproduce this quite well - Rustin's Plastic coating IIRC, which I have used in the past - still available, I think.
It gives a good thickness of high gloss with no brush marks and comes with burnishing cream.

Clear lacquer from Autopaint (franchises all over UK) is good, and available in aerosol form. This will give a deep gloss and as many coats as you want, and it can be burnished with cutting compound.

Touching up can be done with coloured wax crayons (beaumontage) available in various wood colours.
HTH

Radio_Dave · 15th Mar 2006, 10:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

I think Danish oil is good if you don't want to darken the wood too much

Wiping the cabinet with white spirit will give you a reasnoble idea of what Danish Oil will look like

But remember, Danish Oil will look slightly darker than white spirit.

Aerodyne · 15th Mar 2006, 12:27 pm

Rustins two-part lacquer is available from Axminster. If you choose to use Danish Oil be aware that it is essentially transparent and therefore ply edges and other marks will show rather. Toner spray followed by clear lacquer spray will avoid this problem and provide a higher gloss but needs some care in use. Take a look under the restoration button on my website:
http://www.vintageradioworld.co.uk/
If you would like addresses of spray suppliers, PM me.
-Tony

Panrock · 15th Mar 2006, 3:49 pm

The most authentic results (for sets other than continental piano-key) are generally achieved by spraying on cellulose lacquers (coloured and clear) obtainable from suppliers such as Fiddes but with care, good results can also be achieved with Halfords acrylic clear lacquer aerosols - you'll need about 8 flatted coats. If necessary the tinting can be done by adding light puffs of a suitable brown shade in the process, but be careful you don't obscure the grain.

Also important for a good result is thorough preparation of the stripped surface, and filling small areas where there's damage.

Steve

PJL · 15th Mar 2006, 6:34 pm

Loads of information - thanks everyone for your input. As it is never going to restore to perfect I will experiment a little and try a small area with Danish oil and another with a liquid wax finish. The 'real stuff' on Fiiddes site looks ideal but may lose it's attraction when I get a response to my price enquiry!

Thanks again all...

PaulR · 16th Mar 2006, 6:26 pm

I have used Danish Oil on several pieces of furniture and radios and have always been pleased with the results. You won't get the toffee-type finish of the original, but that isn't always a bad thing. Polished with a proper wax polish such as Lord Sheraton it looks really nice, but as Tony says it won't cover the ends of ply wood. Pledge-like spray with silicones will ruin it.

As a matter of interest it is very similar the 18th Century method of polishing furniture which French polish is trying to replicate. If your radio lasts for 200 years or so it should have a lovely patina!

Radio_Dave · 16th Mar 2006, 10:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulR

but as Tony says it won't cover the ends of ply wood

I always paint the ends of the ply wood using a slightly darker paint than I expect the finnish to turn out

. Originally they would have been painted, wouldn't they

Regards
David

Aerodyne · 17th Mar 2006, 11:09 am

Dave says

Quote:

Originally they would have been painted, wouldn't they

It depends upon the original finish. With French polish being at least semi-transparent, the ply edges would have needed hiding. With the treacle-thick, brownish obscuring mess of some post-war cabinets (presumably to hide the fact that inferior timber was used), probably not!
My method, with Danish oil, is to mask off and apply a careful coat of suitable colour paint. As Danish oil will not attack dissolve most oil paint,it seems a safe option. If the cabinet is to be lacquer sprayed, either clear or with light toning, I also paint the edges but with aerosol spray paint on a fine artist's brush (quick work needed. I spray into the plastic or metal spray can lid and pick up the paint from there. You also need cellulose thinner 0 or WD40 - to clean the brush IMMEDIATELY.)
-Tony

Panrock · 17th Mar 2006, 1:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerodyne

I also paint the edges but with aerosol spray paint on a fine artist's brush (quick work needed. I spray into the plastic or metal spray can lid and pick up the paint from there.

An even simpler method that I use is, once the cabinet side is suitably masked off - ie. leaving just the end-ply visible, just go over it with the aerosol sprayed on directly. Make sure the direction from which you spray leaves the rest of the cabinet in 'shadow' (so there's no over-spray) and the whole job is done in seconds.

When spraying up back edges of the cabinet this way, no masking is needed at all.

Steve

PaulR · 17th Mar 2006, 6:09 pm

Unless they are very thick, I actually don't mind the plywood edges!

Just another thought about the earlier stages. If you have to use a paint stripper, use white spirit to clean it off. This isn't because of any problems with water vs plywood, but because if you use wire wool in the process, the water rusts the bits you inevitably leave behind making a spotty finish.

rigsby27 · 17th Mar 2006, 6:34 pm

Hi,

I have used Danish oil on all my cabinet refurbs and I've been pleased with the results, I find any sort of gloss, or not so gloss finish can be achieved by the number of coats and using wire wool to dull it down a bit before it gets waxed.

From experiance I have found it's best to leave 48 hours in between coats and a good week or so after the final coat before waxing, if I need to paint ends of ply or speaker reveals I think it's best after the first coat of oil, this aids a colour match and stops the ply edges being too porus.

Cheers,

Tony.

PJL · 18th Mar 2006, 8:34 pm

I'm off to go and take the HMV to bits again which is a real pain as it has black laquered horizontal wooden bars around the entire box that are part nailed. I have used danish oil for treating hardwood in the house and found it very easy so I will go with that. Has anyone tried mixing stain with the Danish oil for the first few layers? Lastly, this is an HMV not a Pye - PLY!!! not a chance, solid wood all the way through...

Aerodyne · 19th Mar 2006, 11:08 am

Panrock writes:

Quote:

An even simpler method that I use is, once the cabinet side is suitably masked off - ie. leaving just the end-ply visible, just go over it with the aerosol sprayed on directly. Make sure the direction from which you spray leaves the rest of the cabinet in 'shadow' (so there's no over-spray) and the whole job is done in seconds.

Me too, even using masking when I elect to brush - but I forgot to mention this essential point.
PJL writes:

Quote:

Has anyone tried mixing stain with the Danish oil for the first few layers?

I haven't and I never will because I doubt the finish would be even enough - IMHO it would end up too patchy and that's assuming that the oil and the stain are compatible. If staining is your thing (its not mine as I dislike combined stains and varnishes generally) it must be best to do it first before applying oil.
-Tony

Nickthedentist · 19th Mar 2006, 3:01 pm

With Danish Oil, make sure you remove all existing varnish/lacquer/French Polish, or else the result will be patchy.

I know it's obvious, but it caught me out once

Nick.

PaulR · 19th Mar 2006, 3:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

With Danish Oil, make sure you remove all existing varnish/lacquer/French Polish, or else the result will be patchy.

Nick.

Actually, I have found that if you rub stain into a fairly scratched case then apply Danish oil over the whole lot, then polish it with wax polish, the stain and polish tend to cover the scratches and clean off the rest of the undamaged original. It works if the original is just scratched and not flaking through damp and is worth trying before a radical strip down.

14th Mar 2006, 9:20 pm	#1
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? I have a an hmv 463 30's set which I stripped the finish off as it had mostly fallen off anyway. My first attempt was to use french polish but a few months later and it has become heat damaged from the valves. It would originally have been laquer I guess. I see Paul Stenning recommends a colron wax or oil finish, elsewhere I have seen articles recommending laquer but I have no idea where this can be purchased from? What should I be trying next and where can I get it frrom? Any help would be very much appreciated as the set is fully electircally restored but looks as if I just recovered it from a skip!

14th Mar 2006, 9:32 pm	#2
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? I've used Colron Dark Oak coloured liquid wax to finish cabinets. It looks nice but doesn't have the toffee apple high gloss shine of the commercial varnishes and lacquers originally used on radios. Not too much work and idiot proof though Paul

14th Mar 2006, 10:49 pm	#3
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? I prefer Danish Oil, it's just wiped on with a lint free cloth. More coats are added after 6 hours, to give a deeper shine, but don't be tempted to do 4 coats as it starts looking too thick I've attached a picture of a radio to which I have applied three coats David Attached Thumbnails

15th Mar 2006, 12:50 am	#4
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? Nice job David. I think Danish oil is good if you don't want to darken the wood too much. Many radio cabinets were sprayed with heavily pigmented lacquer (almost like brown paint) and in these cases Danish oil won't look dark enough. Even the dark Colron liquid wax doesn't get the wood to the correct colour. I'm planning to use Danish oil on my Ekco A104 when I strip it over the summer, possibly together with wood dye. Danish oil doesn't look like the original lacquer though, even if you get the colour right Best regards, Paul

15th Mar 2006, 9:33 am	#5
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? The difficult ones are things like some of the German sets with an extremely high gloss. There is a 2-part product that will reproduce this quite well - Rustin's Plastic coating IIRC, which I have used in the past - still available, I think. It gives a good thickness of high gloss with no brush marks and comes with burnishing cream. Clear lacquer from Autopaint (franchises all over UK) is good, and available in aerosol form. This will give a deep gloss and as many coats as you want, and it can be burnished with cutting compound. Touching up can be done with coloured wax crayons (beaumontage) available in various wood colours. HTH __________________ Mike.

15th Mar 2006, 12:27 pm	#7
Aerodyne Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hampton Vale, Peterborough, UK. Posts: 1,698	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? Rustins two-part lacquer is available from Axminster. If you choose to use Danish Oil be aware that it is essentially transparent and therefore ply edges and other marks will show rather. Toner spray followed by clear lacquer spray will avoid this problem and provide a higher gloss but needs some care in use. Take a look under the restoration button on my website: http://www.vintageradioworld.co.uk/ If you would like addresses of spray suppliers, PM me. -Tony

15th Mar 2006, 3:49 pm	#8
Panrock Nonode Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 2,533	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? The most authentic results (for sets other than continental piano-key) are generally achieved by spraying on cellulose lacquers (coloured and clear) obtainable from suppliers such as Fiddes but with care, good results can also be achieved with Halfords acrylic clear lacquer aerosols - you'll need about 8 flatted coats. If necessary the tinting can be done by adding light puffs of a suitable brown shade in the process, but be careful you don't obscure the grain. Also important for a good result is thorough preparation of the stripped surface, and filling small areas where there's damage. Steve

15th Mar 2006, 6:34 pm	#9
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? Loads of information - thanks everyone for your input. As it is never going to restore to perfect I will experiment a little and try a small area with Danish oil and another with a liquid wax finish. The 'real stuff' on Fiiddes site looks ideal but may lose it's attraction when I get a response to my price enquiry! Thanks again all...

16th Mar 2006, 6:26 pm	#10
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? I have used Danish Oil on several pieces of furniture and radios and have always been pleased with the results. You won't get the toffee-type finish of the original, but that isn't always a bad thing. Polished with a proper wax polish such as Lord Sheraton it looks really nice, but as Tony says it won't cover the ends of ply wood. Pledge-like spray with silicones will ruin it. As a matter of interest it is very similar the 18th Century method of polishing furniture which French polish is trying to replicate. If your radio lasts for 200 years or so it should have a lovely patina!

17th Mar 2006, 6:09 pm	#14
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? Unless they are very thick, I actually don't mind the plywood edges! Just another thought about the earlier stages. If you have to use a paint stripper, use white spirit to clean it off. This isn't because of any problems with water vs plywood, but because if you use wire wool in the process, the water rusts the bits you inevitably leave behind making a spotty finish.

17th Mar 2006, 6:34 pm	#15
rigsby27 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 64	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? Hi, I have used Danish oil on all my cabinet refurbs and I've been pleased with the results, I find any sort of gloss, or not so gloss finish can be achieved by the number of coats and using wire wool to dull it down a bit before it gets waxed. From experiance I have found it's best to leave 48 hours in between coats and a good week or so after the final coat before waxing, if I need to paint ends of ply or speaker reveals I think it's best after the first coat of oil, this aids a colour match and stops the ply edges being too porus. Cheers, Tony.

18th Mar 2006, 8:34 pm	#16
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? I'm off to go and take the HMV to bits again which is a real pain as it has black laquered horizontal wooden bars around the entire box that are part nailed. I have used danish oil for treating hardwood in the house and found it very easy so I will go with that. Has anyone tried mixing stain with the Danish oil for the first few layers? Lastly, this is an HMV not a Pye - PLY!!! not a chance, solid wood all the way through...

19th Mar 2006, 3:01 pm	#18
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: What to use for refinishing wooden cabinets? With Danish Oil, make sure you remove all existing varnish/lacquer/French Polish, or else the result will be patchy. I know it's obvious, but it caught me out once Nick.