E.A.R. DeLuxe record player.

[Station X]

OUTPUT TRANSFORMER TEST.

Player UNPLUGGED from the mains supply. It doesn't matter whether it's switched ON or OFF.

You'll see that the two wires from the speaker go to the secondary winding of the output transformer. This winding is undoubtedly OK, as is the speaker, since you can hear mains hum from the speaker

The three tags between the secondary winding tags go to the transformer's centre tapped primary winding. Measure the resistance from the centre tag to each adjacent tag. The readings should show approximately equal resistances.

[Edward Huggins]

To answer the OP's query as to the spare cartridges he has, from the Pics these are stereo cartridges (BSR SCxx?) and are likely to have a medium output of c.200mV which would well suit the amplifier. Of course, the LH and RH channels will need bridging: RH+ to LH+ and RH- to LH- this will allow for stereo-compatible, mono playing and ideal for all types of microgroove records.

[buggies]

Re - testing the SenTerCel rectifier.
I tried testing one in-circuit this evening but could not get sensible readings in either direction due to the reservoir cap charging ( via the mains transformer secondary in this case).
The OP may get better readings if the motor is unplugged so there is no circuit to the capacitor.

[crackle]

Originally Posted by Station X

MAINS NEUTRAL TEST.

Player UNPLUGGED from the mains supply, but switched ON.

Set your meter to the 200R range, that's next to the 2k range. Confirm that the meter is working by touching the leads together whereupon a zero or near zero reading should be displayed.

Connect either meter lead to the player's metal chassis. Connect the other meter lead to the LIVE and NEUTRAL pins of the mains plug in turn noting the two readings.

If the NEUTRAL pin gives the lowest reading then all is well. If the LIVE pin gives the lowest reading, then swop over the wires on the LIVE and NEUTRAL pins within the plug and repeat the test.

I would like to add a comment about the above.
All correct, except regarding the last para. I would say in all cases where the mains cable has identifiable wires, such as red & black or brown & blue then you should swap the wires at the amp chassis, (mains on off switch) not at the plug.

When testing to check if the mains neutral is connected to the chassis it is the amp chassis that is being checked, but in some cases you should also check the record player deck chassis is also connected to mains neutral and not live.
It is my view that it is advisable for the record deck to also be connected to mains neutral in case of a breakdown in the insulation, or other fault with the wiring or motor that could result in the record deck becoming live. If a fault does develop here then it should take out the 3 amp (or less) fuse in the mains plug, protecting you from electric shock.
Mike

[G8UWM-MildMartin]

I must disagree with the accessible metal parts of the deck being directly connected to either mains neutral (live) or line (live).
It should at least be insulated from both by single insulation (Class 0 as it probably was originally) or single insulation and also earthed (Class I as a few record players were) or double insulation or equivalent (class II, which was unusual.)
Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick in my dotage...

[crackle]

Yes, I correct my statement above, if it is already connected to the amp chassis, then it must be connected to neutral, the same as the amp chassis.
If it is not already connected to either the amp chassis, mains live or mains neutral, and the record deck metal chassis and pickup earth is kept separate to the amp chassis then the deck could be earthed, making it even safer in the event of a break down of the deck wiring or motor windings.

Mike

[Station X]

Originally Posted by parlourtw73vs

Station X I've had a look at that link to check the diodes and would like a little help. I've uploaded some more images and one is of my DMM. Is the position for checking the diodes the one at 6 oclock on its dial? If not, which setting should I use to give the readings you require and presumably I place the probes on the terminals of each. Will I do this with the power on or off?

The diode test range is indeed at the 6 'o' clock position on your DMM's switch. However as I've stated you probably won't get good results using this range. Instead I suggest using a resistance range, starting at 20M and working down the ranges to see if you can get sensible results. If the rectifiers are OK there should be a marked difference between the forward and reverse readings. The rectifiers are in parallel, so if you test one you'll effectively be testing them both.

Buggies' suggestion to unplug the motor while making this test is a good one.

EDIT. Forgot to say. All diode and resistance tests should be done with the player unplugged from the mains supply.

[Techman]

Can we just clear this up about supposedly connecting the metalwork of the record deck to the amplifier chassis in this player. This is a live chassis player I believe, so the metalwork of the record deck should never be directly connected to the metalwork of the amplifier chassis under any circumstances whatsoever. The only possible method of connection would be via 'Y' type isolation capacitors. However, if the deck metalwork has been left floating by the manufacturers, then this is how it would have probably complied with the regulations of the time and should be left 'as-is'. An earth could be added to just the isolated deck metalwork, but this would be regarded as an illegal modification and brings it into complying with a different set of regulations which it can never meet, so best left as original. The risk of the motor windings leaking to chassis is extremely unlikely, and I've never heard of it happening.

Directly connecting the record deck chassis to the amplifier chassis of a live chassis record player would be absolute suicide should the connections be reversed in the plug or the neutral connection become disconnected - even the poles of the on/off switch breaking at fractionally different times (if a DP switch used) could cause a fatal shock!

[parlourtw73vs]

I’m sorry to not have replied earlier but at the moment I’m at my daughters and away from the player. I should be home later today and will commence carrying out the suggested tests. I hope to be able to give the results early tomorrow. Happy New Year to all on the forum and thanks again. Malc.

[Station X]

Originally Posted by Techman

Can we just clear this up about supposedly connecting the metalwork of the record deck to the amplifier chassis in this player. This is a live chassis player I believe, so the metalwork of the record deck should never be directly connected to the metalwork of the amplifier chassis under any circumstances whatsoever. The only possible method of connection would be via 'Y' type isolation capacitors. However, if the deck metalwork has been left floating by the manufacturers, then this is how it would have probably complied with the regulations of the time and should be left 'as-is'. An earth could be added to just the isolated deck metalwork, but this would be regarded as an illegal modification and brings it into complying with a different set of regulations which it can never meet, so best left as original. The risk of the motor windings leaking to chassis is extremely unlikely, and I've never heard of it happening.

Directly connecting the record deck chassis to the amplifier chassis of a live chassis record player would be absolute suicide should the connections be reversed in the plug or the neutral connection become disconnected - even the poles of the on/off switch breaking at fractionally different times (if a DP switch used) could cause a fatal shock!

This must all be very confusing to the OP who is a beginner.

If you look at post#1 picture 2, post #30 picture 1 and post #47 picture 1, you will see that the player is fitted with a three core mains lead and that the earth lead is connected to the metal plate holding the mains switch etc. This metal plate is electrically isolated from the main chassis. whether this safety earth is connected through to other exposed metal work such as the deck I don't know, but I'm happy to leave the manufacturer's wiring as it is.

[ms660]

For clarification, can you do a clearer photo or photo's of the mains earth connection where the volume control is also showing the capacitor (C14) connections that seem to be associated with it, and a photo showing what wires are connected to where underneath the record deck itself.

EDIT: Post crossed.

Lawrence.

[Techman]

I agree, and was thinking the same as regards confusing the OP, but couldn't let the statement regarding connecting the metalwork of the deck directly to the amplifier chassis of a live chassis player go unchallenged on safety grounds. I think we've got it cleared up now.

[Station X]

One post moved to a new thread here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=152750

[parlourtw73vs]

Back again. I'm going to post the readings requested by Graham. As the player is so old it is wired up with the older red, black and green flex and at the moment the plug is wired correctly.
Mains neutral test :-
Live - virtually no reading, Neutral - 00.5
After swapping the red and black leads over :-
Live - 00.5, Neutral - virtually no reading,
I assume this means I will have to swap over the wiring to the chassis to right this and maintain the correct plug wiring. Will I do this by reversing the mains leads at the on/off switch or by changing the wires leading from the switch to the chassis. By the way, just to give you any relevant info. I inserted one of the meter probes in the rivet holding the valve base to the chassis, is that correct?
Now to testing the output transformer and this doesn't seem like good news. I did as Graham instructed and inserted a probe in the third terminal, the centre one between the two wires to the loudspeaker, and then touched the terminal to its left I got a reading of 198.5. When I touched the probe to the one on the right I got a transitory flash of numbers which immediately reverted to no reading. I assume this means the secondary winding on the transformer is kaput. If so, I await your further thoughts on what to do with this unit as I presume a new t/x will not be easily come across. Malc.

[ms660]

The mains lead is wired up correctly so far as I can tell from the photo's.

Lawrence.

[Station X]

Two questions relating to neutral testing. By virtually no reading do you mean short-circuit or open circuit?

Which red and black leads did you swop over and where?

[parlourtw73vs]

When I say no reading, on switching on the meter the display showed a 1 and when I touched the probe to the plug pin this display didn't change at all until I touched the other pin when it displayed a 00.5 reading.
I changed the red and black leads over from the terminals in the plug itself. What I presumed to be the desirable reading of 00.5 on the live pin was obtained when the black lead was connected to it.

[ms660]

We need the results in Ohms.....

Lawrence.

[Station X]

Originally Posted by parlourtw73vs

When I say no reading, on switching on the meter the display showed a 1 and when I touched the probe to the plug pin this display didn't change at all until I touched the other pin when it displayed a 00.5 reading.
I changed the red and black leads over from the terminals in the plug itself. What I presumed to be the desirable reading of 00.5 on the live pin was obtained when the black lead was connected to it.

'1' will indicate infinite resistance or open circuit and I assume this is what you mean by no reading? I have no idea what you mean by "virtually no reading" though An open circuit reading makes no sense as there should be a circuit from the live pin to chassis via the valve heaters, parallel resistor and the moter.

EDIT. Previous posts suggest that the total series resistance of the heaters when cold is 152 ohms. When added to the motor's resistance this could exceed the 200 ohms measurable on the 200R range resulting in an over range condition. Try the 2k range.

[parlourtw73vs]

Lawrence, to try and eliminate any misunderstanding I'm uploading some images of the readings I got showing the placing of the probes and the meter display and dial to show its setting. The first two photos show the probes attached to the chassis and alternating with the other probe between the live and neutral terminals of the plug. As you will see, the larger reading seems to be taken with the probe clipped on the neutral terminal only this time it seems to be .004.
I rechecked the output transformer as shown in the next three photos. This time I got a different reading and I don't know why. In the first image you'll see the meter reading its 1 setting but this time I got that reading on both terminals. I've not shown both as I can only upload 5 images at a time. I don't know what made me do the next test but I switched the meter to its diode setting and connected up the probes as seen in the next 2 images. You can see the readings I got then, but if they mean anything or nothing I can only trust in you to decipher. I hope these images give you the information you require, please let me know if otherwise and I'll try to obtain what you need. Malc.