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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 6th Dec 2013, 12:15 pm   #21
Steve_P
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

There are two secondaries on this unit - LT for the valve heaterss and the bulb, HT for the valves. You need to have them both for the unit to work.

The 220v may be there, but are the valves lit? All three should be of course, and the bulb is wired between the chassis earth and one of the V1 heater pins. For these, switch your meter to AC. Are the valves lit??

The HT goes to the Input of the Bridge Rectifier - On AC - they are the Blue and Green legs of this unit. Switch to DC and measure the other two. Should be about 220V.

Cheers,

Steve P.
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Old 6th Dec 2013, 12:22 pm   #22
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

No the valves don't light up. Sounds like a problem with the transformer. I'm at work at the moment so I will have to wait until this afternoon before I can check voltages on the secondarys but thanks for the info. I know where to look next.

Kevin
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Old 6th Dec 2013, 12:34 pm   #23
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

They should. It's very unlikely for all the heaters to have failed, so this is looking like the Transformer.

Does the motor operate? If yes, then it's likely to be the transformer. If not, then it's likely to be the On-Off switch. One is easier to fix than the other!

Check the mains voltage tap on the Transformer. It could be mucky!

Cheers,

Steve P.
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Old 6th Dec 2013, 12:42 pm   #24
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Smile Re: Pye Black Box

Hi,
If it's got two PCL83s and an ECC82, wouldn't the heaters be in series, as they have 300mA heaters? Maybe the bulb as well, so one failure will take them all out.
Cheers, Pete.
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Old 6th Dec 2013, 12:53 pm   #25
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Not in this case. V2 and V3 are in parallel. V1 is separate, both going off a different half of the winding. The bulb goes to deck from the end of one half.

Cheers,

Steve P.
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Old 6th Dec 2013, 1:49 pm   #26
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Just looked at pic3 again and if you look at the on/off switch there is definitely scorch maks there! Hopefully that is the problem and not the transformer.

Kevin
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Old 6th Dec 2013, 6:09 pm   #27
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

How do you clean that black tar like stuff off the tags? Are the tags measures vertical or horizontal? I'm getting no readings vertically and 230v horizontally with 19v on the secondarys horizontal. Getting myself confused, I think!

Kevin
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 12:15 pm   #28
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

You don't need to clear the pitch off the tags.

Looking at photo 3

There are white and black wires taking mains from the switch on the back of the volume control, down to the transformer via the voltage selector switch on the back panel (left wall in the photo) These come back in various colours to the transformer.

Looking at the bottom left of the photo, there is an upright block with 4 tags. It is a selenium bridge rectifier. The HT winding of the transformer is connected to two of them, and the other two are the positive and negative outputs, going to the fitst of the capacitors in the big can. The green wire goes to a solder lug on the chassis, shared with the black end of that nasty melted Plessey electrolytic. So the green wire is on the negative output of the bridge

The top terminal with a thick black wire on it looks to go off to a tag on the output transformer, so I suspect this is the positive output of the bridge.

The middle two terminals on the same level on the photo have (thinner)black and blue wires leading back to the mains transformer. These must therefore be connected to the HT windings If your voltmeter has grabber hooks or small croc clips, you could connect up with power off, then put power on to see if there is a couple of hundred volts AC between these terminals.

Take care. You can connect your meter with power disconnected, then put power on and read the meter, all without ever touching the chassis or the probes.

David
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 12:39 pm   #29
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

There are no volts between the blue and black wires on the rectifier. I get 226v from white terminal on the transformer to the blue terminal on the rectifier but that's it.

Kevin
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 1:24 pm   #30
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Hi Kevin, Did you test the tags I circled in post #18? Looking at the photo again, I can't see the voltage selection plug, presumably it's there?

David
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 1:41 pm   #31
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

The white wire, I think is one of the mains connections, so getting voltage between it and secondary, ground related things doesn't prove the transformer is OK.

Try an ohms test on the mains plug pins with the unit switched off, and then on.

Unsolder the blue and black wires from the rectifier block and do an ohms test between them.

For total desperation, try an ohms test from each of the blue and black wires to each of the transformer tags in turn.

David
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 3:59 pm   #32
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Hi Radio Dave, I can't see the voltage selection plug either but I don't know where it's supposed to be. I got not voltage readings on the tags you circled either.

Kevin
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:21 pm   #33
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Something needs to needs to be plugged into the other side of the sockets I've circled in yellow. Without it no mains supply is going to the transformer.

David
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:22 pm   #34
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Radio Wrangler, the Ohms test with switch off was 0L on all settings and when switched on was 0L also. Between the Blue and Black wires (unsoldered) was 104 ohms and 1 ohm each between wire and corresponding tag (104ohms to opposite tag).
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:23 pm   #35
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

I thought that was just where the deck was plugged in!
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:26 pm   #36
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Post a pic of the outside of the sockets and then we'll be able to tell you what's what.

I wonder whether the gram output plug has the voltage selector built into it, see here: http://www.acme-inc.co.uk/xvalvegal.jpg

I'm only au fait with the earlier BBH (E-series valves) model.
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:42 pm   #37
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

OL means very high resistance or an open circuit.

All this fits in with the voltage selector link being missing! You might not have a burnt out transformer after all.

If you look at the outside of the chassis, from the left sifde of the picture as you've photographed it, you'll see a cutout in the metal with a piece of paxolin insulation filling the hole.

In the paxolin, you'll see a number of indivirual little sockets…. one with an arc of others around it. Engraved by each one in the arc should be a mains voltage number.

A little shorting plug fits into the centre socket and into one of the ones in the arc, which one sets what voltage your record player will work with.

This plug connects the mains to the appropriate tap on the primary of your transformer. No plug…. no connection... no power…. nothing happening.

Maybe it's been lost, maybe someone took it out for a reason.

If the plug is missing, the bad news is you have to find a replacement. The good news is that you get to do a number of checks and replace a number of risky components BEFORE any power gets applied for real.

The people on this group value equipment which is as-found and untested MORE than one which has been plugged in by someone and said to work.

David
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:44 pm   #38
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

Found the voltage selector and plugged in in the 225-250 volt holes and still no voltage. Would this be because the wires are not attached to anything?. Here's the photo Nick.

Kevin
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 4:59 pm   #39
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

That looks like the speaker plug. The plug for the turntable has the voltage selection link built in and is the one you need to use. Don't forget to connect the speakers while your at it, or the output transformer might be damaged, if it does power up

David

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Old 7th Dec 2013, 5:05 pm   #40
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Default Re: Pye Black Box

The speaker plug is still attached to the speakers. This plug doesn't fit in that hole (see photo)

Kevin
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